Exploring Relevance in the Food Industry: A Whole Church Job Fair

ay - Porter's Gate Collective: 00:00:43

Farmer, you are working for a table full of bounty. Painter, with each color you are teaching us to see. Nurse. Yours are the healing hands that touch the poor and broken. May God's kingdom come on earth.

His will be done.

TJ Blackwell: 00:01:15

Ephesians 4, 25, 29 in the Christian standard Bible say, therefore, putting away lying, speak the truth, each one to his neighbor. Because we are members of one another, be angry and do not sin. Don't let the sun go down on your anger, and don't give the devil an opportunity.

Let the thief no longer steal. Instead he is to do honest work with his own hands so that he has something to share with anyone in need.

No foul language should come from your mouth, but only what is good for building up someone in need so that it gives grace to those who hear. In the book of Ephesians, St. Paul is explaining what it means to be the church.

And before this pricope, Paul wrote that the church is to work together in all of our different roles. Here he insists that the church builds one another up in word, in deeds, and in ties to our occupational work, to this idea.

Joe, how do you think the way that we, the church, present ourselves in work ties into the idea of building one another up?

Joe Dea: 00:02:15

Well, I mean, there's, there's characteristics that should be intrinsic to the life and behavior of a Christian in every single aspect of how we do life and cooperate with one another.

So if we're bringing those edicts and we're bringing those values into the various aspects of our life, it's going to affect how we engage with one another, how we do business with one another, how we live life among other people.

ay - Porter's Gate Collective: 00:02:48

Be close to us, Lord, have mercy on us, Lord, please put your hands on us day by day.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:20

Hey guys, welcome to the Whole Church podcast. Doing the whole church job fair. Guys, we are kicking off a brand new series. Just gonna have a lot of fun with this one, guys.

We're going to be talking to people, not necessarily the pastors and the scholars that sometimes maybe you guys got used to over here.

We're still gonna have some pastors and scholars like our guest today, but we're gonna have people who work ordinary jobs who understand what the real world is like.

And we're gonna ask them whether this stuff that the pastors and theologians are talking about actually really make a difference in their lives at all.

So today we're gonna be explaining the series a little bit, so we're gonna get into it a little bit more and we're gonna be talking we with a few guests about the food industry and how our theology does or doesn't impact the daily lives of people working in food. So I'm here with the wonderful Pastor Joe Day. How's it going? Thanks for having me. Yeah, man.

And we're also here, the other guest we mentioned you should be familiar with, not only from our show in the past, but also from our. Our sister show, Systematic Ecology. One of the hosts over there, and chef, and someone who has minister credentials involving schooling.

The one and only Liz Clyde. How's it going?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:04:38

Hello. Good.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:39

Yeah. And of course, the reason for the season, the reason food exists. You know, at one point we were just kind of eating grass like the cows.

And then someone invented the culinary arts the same time they invented art. And that was the one and only T.J. tiberius Juan Blackwell. How's it going?

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:54

Good.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:55

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I thought you might say that weirdly enough. Yeah, let's get going.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:01

Yeah. And if you're listening to this, you should also check out the ANEL podcast network website. We talked about our sister show.

That's where you can find it. It's links below. Click that. Click us. Click our friends. You should also check out the whole church store.

We've got some job fair specific merch coming out for this series. Our product manager, I think just recently was aware of that. So it is a work in progress.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:25

Right? The second I became aware of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:29

But that is the plan.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:30

Yeah. And also while you're over there, you should check out our Patreon and get discounts on this merch that doesn't exist yet. And I gotta do.

I gotta do some backstory for today's silly question. You guys know we always do the holy sacrament of silliness every episode before we kick things off.

We opened up for this series on our, our group page on Facebook and we're like, hey, guys, what do you guys think are the biggest things that people talk about in church and in theology schools? Because we wanted to see what people actually thought were being talked about. So that when we're asking people, hey, are these things relevant?

It's actually the stuff that's being talked about. And for some reason, someone added the question whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich.

That's something they wanted to hear people talk about on this series. And not only did someone randomly it a bunch of people voted for that as an important theological topic.

So our silly question, brought to you by our good friend Sam Perez. I'm gonna ask you guys, TJ and I answer first. Actually, I Think only one of us should answer now.

The other one should wait till the end of the series. Make people wait. Anticipation. TJ will answer first. Tj, share your wisdom. Is a hot dog a sandwich?

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:45

According to the USDA and the fda, if it can be a sandwich, if it is at least 35 cooked meat and no more than 50 bread for a closed sandwich and then at least 50 cooked meat for an open faced sandwich. The problem is a hot dog is not strictly an open faced sandwich, nor is it a traditional sandwich because it is a split bun.

And that's where a lot of the problems come with this interpretation.

That USDA manual then goes on to talk about burritos, which are a sandwich like and frankfurters which are a sandwich type, but not strictly sandwich. I say yes. Also staunchly yes.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:27

Why does the US get to define what a sandwich is?

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:30

We live here.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:31

That should be up to the uk.

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:32

They started governing. That's a governing authority for us. That's what we're talking about.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:36

But also, hey, when we did the poor people hot dogs, we're just one piece of bread. There was no split entries for sure. That's definitely a sandwich.

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:43

Yeah, that is for sure an open faced sandwich.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:46

I love that. This silly question is also here while we're like, we're talking about food industry for the first episode.

So like you get the, you get the official answer first. I didn't hear what everybody else thinks. Guys, Joe already talked. Liz is a hot dog and sandwich.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:08:04

If cauliflower can be a pizza, a hot dog can be a sandwich.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:07

All right, Joe, take us home.

Joe Dea: 00:08:11

Absolutely. So I actually ran a hot dog under a sandwich under a sandwich menu one time and the reactions from people were quite diverse and very interesting.

But yes, it is 100% a sandwich.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:25

All right, well if you guys want my answer, you'll have to wait till the end. But so far we have a three for three hot dogs, a sandwich, hot.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:34

Dog is a sandwich. But turns out, in what way, if any, do you think this question could be relevant to your life? Pang, Liz, real name, whatever.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:08:47

Still not even my name, but all right.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:49

Elizabeth, Beth.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:52

I want to petition only call her Beth from now on.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:08:55

I would ignore you.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:57

So, but yeah, if any, is this question relevant to your life?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:09:02

Absolutely not. I don't care.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:03

Joe's already answered. It was relevant to his life at least once.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:07

Yeah, it was.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:09:08

But I mean, you said cooked meat, so what about like, you know, an eggplant sandwich? You know, I mean for the vegetarians, he's just opened up the Hole.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:16

Vegetarians don't get sandwiches.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:18

They can't have sandwiches.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:09:19

Okay. I was just curious.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:21

I disagree with that particular logic.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:09:24

If you. If you do that, can a cake be a sandwich? Know, like, if we're going to go.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:28

Back into the question, then the problem being the USDA traditionally only covers meats, and they've grown over the years to cover more foodstuffs, but what they're concerned about is meat.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:41

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:42

So of course their answer is going to revolve around cooked meats.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:45

I think you'd get a similar answer if you asked Ron Swanson.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:09:48

No, he would.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:48

He would say it absolutely matters. Yeah.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:09:50

He said, give me all the meat with no bread.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:55

Yeah. So far, to me, it hasn't been relevant in the sense that the content of the question matters. But I've had this debate many, many, many times.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:05

All right, well, then there we have it. There we have it. Oh, man. All right. So, guys, the reason we're doing this series so kind of mentioned to you a little bit what it is.

We're talking to people about their. Their day jobs and whether or not the stuff that we're talking about in our churches and our seminaries are actually impacting them.

Um, there's a lot of reasons. The. The easy reason is, like, if it's not relevant, then why aren't we talking about it?

Like, honestly, the easy reason is the whole reason theology and philosophy and all this stuff exists is supposedly because it's giving people reason for what they're doing, reason for life, all that kind of thing. So if it's not relevant, we're kind of just spinning the wheel here.

The other reason is a lot of our listeners, actually a majority are pastors or theologians or church leaders of some sort, and we think that they could benefit from hearing more and learning more from people in other occupations. Like, seriously, it is. If we had, like, a map with, like, the dots, like Verizon.

It's really funny when you look at our listeners, like, hey, it lights up in Louisville, Kentucky. It lights up in Dallas, Texas. It lights up in, like, all those, you know, Wheaton, Illinois. And I'm like, yeah, I know where our listeners are.

They're the people attending seminaries. So now you guys can hear from normal people. Congratulations. You're welcome. Something.

Joe Dea: 00:11:23

I'm not sure that you should ever accuse chefs of being normal people, but I digress.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:11:32

Yeah. Because you just believe normal people exist. 80 hours this week. How does that happen?

Joshua Noel: 00:11:36

Yeah, I don't believe that normal people exist.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:38

That's very chef typical.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:39

I Gotta let you know. I know it probably about half my friends do work about 80 hours. Not most of them are in food. That's just normal American behavior to work too much.

But that. I also digress.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:53

80 is too much, but it's way too much.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:11:55

This is when you're a patient person. In this Valentine's Week fair.

Joe Dea: 00:11:59

Yeah.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:12:01

Oh, yeah. I've baked over: 1500

Joshua Noel: 00:12:04

Yeah. I worked in a restaurant at a mall during Christmas time. It was definitely typical. Then everybody called out except for me, basically, and tj.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:13

That was rough. Yeah.

But this is our introduction episode to the series, and we wanted to unpack some of mine and Josh's own history in the workplace to see what may be relevant as we go through the series.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:26

Yeah. So dj, we're all. Where all have you worked? I know you've done welding. You're in food now.

What other stuff do people need to know that, like you've done as far as work?

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:35

Technically? I run a ministry.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:37

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:38

And I do own a business. We build computers, mostly.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:42

The computer thing's kind of interesting. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:44

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:44

In camp.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:44

But that's it.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:45

You're at church camp. I think that counts.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:12:46

That's not volunteer.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:48

That's volunteer work.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:50

No, if you. If you write it right, it works on a resume. Not.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:54

Not only does it not count, it's not relevant to this because it's.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:58

Yeah, that's true. It is still church related. Yeah. I. I have had a few different jobs in churches. You know, pastor jobs.

I actually, I think probably the most interesting one is where I like, did spend a couple years just starting up children's churches throughout a couple different cities. That was fun. But most of my work has either been in food or specifically grocery.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:13:20

I spent a lot of time working in groceries. Remember when you were in college?

Joshua Noel: 00:13:24

That's true. She did help me get a job at Piggly Wiggly once, but I had already worked in Harris Teeter before then. But that's.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:13:31

I still recommended you.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:32

Yeah, I probably want to do that. I have been.

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:34

I've been approached to work at a couple of restaurants that I've turned down to stay with my current restaurant, which will remain unnamed.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:43

Oh, see, I'm gonna.

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:44

For now. Cool.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:13:45

For now.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:46

Yeah. Yeah. But I'll get to that in a second. So my other stuff, outside of grocery, I worked a lot of grocery.

Harry's, Teeter, Kroger's, Piggly Wiggly, Bilo, and Food Lion Pig. I've done a few different restaurants.

Mostly Domino's, then Chipotle, then a Couple others, but they don't really count because I was there for such a short period of time and obviously a lot more ministry. A lot of volunteer random stuff here and there.

The other one that might be interesting and come up throughout the series, I worked for Shutterfly for a little while doing yearbook edits. So graphic design, photo editing, that kind of stuff is also a big part of my work, career, life. Yeah, but that's where we're coming from.

It'll probably come out throughout the series, I feel like, most likely. But we do want to focus on you guys today and specifically the food industry experience everyone's had. All four of us have some experience in food.

I was going to see if you guys can unpack some for our listeners your history both in the workplace and then also with the church. Since both of you also have experience with the church in one way or another. We want to be transparent.

We have a few guests that we're like, oh, hey, these are normal people. But also they've been pastors.

So we don't want to be like, hey, just because we're talking to people about their day life does not mean they don't have any ministry experience. That's just not what we're here to talk about this time. So I want to start. I introduced him as pastor earlier.

So Joe, what, what do you want to like as far as food? What is your experience? And just kind of unpack a little bit for us what you've done with food.

TJ Blackwell: 00:15:16

Right.

Joe Dea: 00:15:17

So I am a second generation chef. So I grew up around the industry, much to my family's chagrin. Took my way through college where I was going to school for tech.

Absolutely fell in love with, with the industry and went with it.

And so spent about 15 years traveling the country, working in kitchens, running kitchens in a variety of different states and conte, including getting evaluated for a Michelin star. And where I fell out of love with the restaurant business. The, the industry is something if you, if you love it, if you hate it, it is torture.

It is, it is hell. And so specifically on the savory side, my fellow chef here will be able to give a different POV from the other side.

But as a savory chef, it's, it's, it's intense if you don't, if you don't love it. And so I stepped away for a couple of years and then before I broke my leg, I got into private event stuff, pop ups, different things like that.

And since I am right on the heels of being back to regular life, Once everything is all cleared up and all of that, I have every intention of starting that up again. So.

Joshua Noel: 00:17:04

All right, all right, Liz, what about you? What's your history with food? Your experience? What do you do?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:17:10

Hello from the other side.

Joshua Noel: 00:17:11

Your church experience too, if you want.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:17:13

Okay. Well, first it's. It's all about the cakes for me. The sweet stuff. I hate savory. I think it's stupid. So thank you, Joe, for doing the stupid stuff.

Appreciate you. The reason why I like, I will.

Joshua Noel: 00:17:25

Always skip dessert for savory. Just for the record, weighing in on.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:17:29

The debate because it's. You have to kind of like prep more for desserts. You can't just like whip out a cake. You know what I mean?

So you have to like, take a little bit more planning. But then it's nice because I could prep ahead because I don't have to worry about like room temperature and all that stuff with baking and pastry.

So definitely like to different side of the coin, but like super different. So I did grocery stores. My favorite, I think was working banquets in a 5 star hotel.

I loved plating like 2 to 500 plates of the same exact monotonous thing. It was just so satisfying for an OCD person. I've done like restaurants, hotels. Cake decorator. For Piggly Wiggly. I was actually.

I worked for their corporate and I called myself the Cake Drifter. It was very great because I would travel to different Piggly Wiggly making sure that bakery was good to go. And now I call it my big girl job.

I'm the director of recruitment for the college. But I have my little cake empire on the side where I do like different dessert caterings.

I do have a couple corporate clients for like the logo cookies and. Yeah. And then for ministry. That's how I got into education. I was working for the church and then I started helping out with the college ministry.

Ran their extension site and that's how I ventured into higher education and recruitment. Oh yeah. I also taught culinary for a little bit in one of the many avenues. But. Yeah.

But right now work for myself as a cake person and director of recruitment for college. So I stay busy. It's a lot of fun. Oh, and I married a pastor, so. Always at the church still.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:07

Yeah. Yeah. And we love Taylor. He's also been a guest a few times.

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:12

He's the show husband, actually.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:19:13

He's so good. I love him. You know what? I'm gonna go kiss him later.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:19

I won't.

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:20

Me too.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:19:20

You should.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:23

Oh, man. I kind of want to unpack a little bit. Because there's different. Like when you say you work in food, you can mean so many different things by that.

Like, it's actually truly crazy. We already even got a little bit of it just from like pastry to savory stuff, you know.

But like, for TJ and I, our experience is in like what's called Quick Service Restaurant. We both work for Chipotle. I meant to put a disclaimer on this, and this is going to come out probably throughout the series.

There are some things we can and cannot say due to legal contract. We have signed to work.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:19:52

Tell us the seasoning, what's the crap?

Joshua Noel: 00:19:54

We cannot tell recipes. We can't give away the Krabby Patty formula, anything like that. We are allowed to.

Whether or not we like our job, we're allowed to say that kind of thing. We're allowed to talk about what we do. We're just not allowed to get into specifics.

And we're not allowed to be like, here's the worst company ever and why you shouldn't work for Chipotle. We're actually just not allowed to do that. We're allowed to say we don't like it, but we're not allowed to tell you guys not to work at Chipotle.

Yeah.

So I did actually ask a lot of questions to some of our uppers because I'm like, hey, we're doing the series and I need to know what we're allowed to say. So Quick Service is kind of like in between fast food and sit down restaurant kind of thing.

It's actually like a little bit of the worst of both worlds.

But that's part of why I love it personally, because you have that thing of like, hey, people expect their food immediately when they show up, but also it all has to be fresh, so you have to cook it as they show up. And that's a pain. We thank you for your incredible pain. Yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:51

No, it's pretty much the worst thing ever, actually. I love my job.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:55

Yeah. Because I also love it though.

Like, I love, like when you get like a really busy day, I'm the only person on grill and it's like, I'm going to make enough chicken for like the next 200 people in like two hours. And it's going to be great.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:07

Yeah. Yeah. Just balancing the weight of expectation versus the expectation to wait. They don't want anyone in line for more than 30 seconds.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:21:18

I don't want to be in line for more than 30 seconds.

Joshua Noel: 00:21:21

Exactly. I also get it. Yeah. So some of some of the differences, too, is coming like a lot of your fast food.

I won't talk too much crap about it because Domino's is pretty much the same thing. It's a lot less culinary arts. You're just kind of making the food you're serving a lot of customers.

And it is hard work, but it is a very different thing than quick service or the kind of thing that Liz and Joe does. Quick service is kind of in between.

If TJ and I wanted, because of how high we're up in there, we can get some credits towards a culinary degree if we wanted to, but it would not just give us a culinary degree with what we're doing. So it is not culinary arts. It's like culinary art. Light, like. Like a stepping stone if we wanted to later do that.

But we cannot call ourselves culinary artists or chefs. Joe and Liz, on the other hand, are in fact, chefs and do culinary arts.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:07

I wear a chef's coat every day.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:10

I also do wear a chef's coat, though. I love it. It's so fun, Especially in the winter when it's cold, because ours.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:16

So I think maybe.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:19

Yeah, yeah. I. I don't do it just because, like, I'm like. I know how much work some people put into actually getting a colony.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:26

Oh, super different.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:27

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:27

Yeah. I do think the only similarity is really, like, prep. A prep chef and a Chipotle prep person.

It is going to be different because a typical prep chef has a lot more things to do in smaller quantities. Typically.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:46

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:46

But it's the closest analog, I think, from Chipotle to, like, a standard sit down restaurant.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:54

Yeah, that makes sense. So I wanted to throw something to Joe here too, because, like, TJ and I are both, like, we dab in culinary stuff at home, too. Partially.

A lot of mine came from. I got enough experience at, like, Chipotle. And then also, you know, I did work for, like, Piggly Wiggly and Food lion.

And for a while I was in, like, the deli and stuff, and we had to, like, make some of the salads and chicken salad and whatever. And it got me just enough that I was like, I bet I could make my own recipes. And then I did. I was like, this is great.

And I think a lot of people at home do stuff and they're like, I want to call myself a chef. And I do culinary stuff too.

And that is one of those things that, like, you say to someone who actually put in the work and you can really get them going. So let's get Joe going. Joe why is that?

What is the difference of people who are like cooking at home or they do fast food and kind of like what you and Liz are talking about?

Joe Dea: 00:23:42

So, full disclosure, this may in fact trigger my fellow chef here, depending on where she falls on this paradigm. I do not think that you need culinary school in order to be a chef.

I am the type of person that if you know what you're doing, if you're good, it's, yes, Chef, heard, chef. It's that I just, I think that there is. I think that that title is earned not from a school, it is earned from lived in experience.

Now we have in a post Food Network world, a lot more people who have a lot more skills at home. And I think that's wonderful. I think more people need to know how to cook.

I think more people need to not be afraid to get creative and explore because working with food is, is amazing. It is a wonderful, wonderful experience.

That being said, though, we also, with that, have this phenomenon of folks with a smartphone and an Instagram account calling themselves a social media chef.

So if the only thing that you have ever done is cook at home, if the only thing that you've ever done is make a single plate of food, gotten the lighting just right and taken a really nice picture, hit up restaurants and find yourself a gig doing food photography, because that's its own thing. Food photography is big business. Go ahead and do that, but go ahead and step on the line, or step in a catering event or step in a pot.

I'm not just saying that chefs live and die on the line, because I don't think that's true either. But step in any professional arena within the culinary world and tell me if you can actually hang with chefs. That's my only thing.

And this is coming from somebody like, because I didn't go to culinary school, I came up the hard way. And it, I understand what it means to earn your stripes to get to the point of working yourself from the bottom up.

I am very forgiving and very giving of that title. I, I see it as a sign of respect that if I can, I give it.

It's just when you start to really exercise that term to mean that you made a good plate of food at home and then start calling yourself a home based chef.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:21

All right.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:21

I do feel like there is one really massive piece of evidence to support Joe's stance here. One of the most famous chefs in the world does not have a culinary degree.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:26:32

Ratatouille. Gordon Ramsay, Chef.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:35

No, ratatouille is more important Though that's what I thought.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:39

Ratatouille also does not have a culinary degree, but Gordon Ramsay doesn't either. Gordon Ramsay has a degree in hotel management. He does not have a culinary arts degree.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:49

Wild. All right, Liz, same question.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:26:53

Yeah, I don't care. You can call yourself whatever you the chef of your own house. I guess it's not gonna make me lose sleep. It's crazy, because I can't.

I care more when people give themselves title pastors without doing the work. But, like, chef, I don't care. So I think because I care so strongly about that, it's. I don't care about that.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:11

Yeah, well, how would you define. Because I know you.

You do, like, catering, but how would you define, like, the difference of what you do as opposed to someone who's like, hey, I made a cake and brought it to a friend's house. Like, is there really a huge.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:27:21

I mean, I guess. And Joe said it. If you needed to have a difference, the key word is professionals. Like, so to be a professional, you're going to get paid to do it.

So it doesn't even have to really be in a kitchen. So if you are, like, technically, I don't refer to myself, since I'm no longer in a. Like, I'm no longer teaching culinary.

So I don't hear Chef Clyde anymore. What's funny, Because I was going through my old thing, and, like, someone wrote me. One of my students wrote me a cord. I found it. So.

But I wouldn't classify myself as a chef at the moment, because even though I'm still in a professional settings, and I have, like, Google is one of my clients, and I've done stuff for them. It's just me. You know what I mean? I don't care. So technically, I could still put on a business card that I am a pastry chef, but doesn't matter.

TJ Blackwell: 00:28:13

And then if you get, like, there are definitely realms of elitism to the world of food, because, like, some people wouldn't call Pang a chef. They would call Pang a patissier, but they would say she's not a chef.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:28:27

It depends on, like, what you want.

Joe Dea: 00:28:29

To me, like, to anybody who looks. To anybody who looks at a patissier, and I'm going to get real, like, inside baseball here for a second. For a second. To anybody who.

Who looks at a patissier and says, you're not a real chef, you go in that kitchen, you make a thousand cookies. You make 700.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:28:50

You make a souffle for, you know.

Joe Dea: 00:28:52

Yeah, exactly. You make a souffle and see what's up. You know what I mean?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:28:55

It's really fun.

Joe Dea: 00:28:56

It's, it's not. And you'll, you'll hear what you've already heard.

Little, little things back and forth to the other side of the coin, to what Peng said before about having a particular distaste for the savory side. Dude, I'm. When it, when it comes to baking, I'm like a 14 year old boy. I'm all, I'm all hands, like, I'm all thumbs when it comes to baking.

Like I'll throw you together some rough and ready cookies or something like that. Like I'll throw something together for you. But everything that you're saying you don't like about the savory side is exactly why that's my world.

And part of it is for me, you know, I haven't really talked about the ministry side because we've been focusing on the chef side, but I do think it's interesting how there are some parallels between that title of chef and that title of pastor.

That for both of them they are titles that in ways are earned by putting in work, by actually doing the thing, by actually fulfilling the tenets of what the call actually is. Anybody and everybody. I am a church planter as well as everything else. That was my first for you into having that title of pastor.

That was before getting ordained and all of that. And I had people calling me pastor at a point where I wasn't ready to have that title. I wasn't ready for that responsibility.

So I'm right there with Peng about the fact that there is a whole group of people out in ministry that utilize that term, that phrase just because they've either started the ministry, started a church, figured out, you know, a means into a situation, or like social media chefs, you've got social media pastors where you start up an Instagram account and you can call yourself whatever you please on that Instagram account and start to build a following. To me, as far as the title goes, I, I fundamentally believe and some people likewise to what Peng is saying, because I no longer work a line.

And I pretty much am at the point in my life where I would never go back to working a line. For some people, I'll never be a chef again. To hell with that.

Like that's, that's something that you earn and once you have it, it's once a chef, always a chef, always. So I would always to paying situation and the fact that she isn't, she's working for Herself and doing those things and all of that.

Well, she might not necessarily hold close that title. To me, it's. It would always be chef because she put in the. Because she put in her strengths, because she earned. You know what I mean?

TJ Blackwell: 00:32:05

Yeah. Personally, I think. I think you're not a chef unless you have a bunch of little scars on your arms.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:11

That's true, too. I covered mine with tattoos deep embedded into your skin.

TJ Blackwell: 00:32:16

You gotta. You gotta have, like. You gotta get them.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:19

It was funny.

TJ Blackwell: 00:32:22

My right arm's not that bad. My left arm's awful.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:25

Luckily, we're not doing brisket right now, so we don't get those popped.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:32:28

I have brisket right now. I just made Korean barbecue. Made it with some brisket.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:34

I.

I want to say, though, for me, one of the important things, and this is funny because this is not something we intended to be part of our series, but we're going to do it here. The chef and pastor thing, one of the things I find similar and why I actually do think titles are important.

I don't like calling someone a chef or anything or a pastor without some kind of validation regarding safety at least.

So, like, if someone's not ecosure verified or been trained in some kind of way where I'm like, oh, wait, I know that the first food coming from you is actually safe. Nah, I don't want to call them a chef because then I feel like I'm endorsing their food and if they get somebody sick, that it's kind of my fault.

It's why I don't want anyone to be like, it's why we don't promote managers until they've been validated. Ecosure@ chipotle anyway. And the same thing, like with pastors. Like, I don't need a degree, but, like, I need to know, like, who did you train under?

Who did this? Like, how do we know that you're actually someone safe that I can train?

Trust other people in your care, and I don't need to, like, rail against the system because this guy is dangerous. You know, that's just my thing. My thing is more about safety when it comes to tiles. Anything else?

Because when you give someone a title, you're saying this is something that's trustworthy.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:43

Yeah, we did. We did want to talk about things that. Like, what's normal in your occupation that others might not think about in restaurants?

You know, we've got, like, front of the house versus back of the house, day shift, night shift, that kind of thing. What. What stuck out to you?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:33:58

I Mean, the big difference thing is, is just like the speed of culinary. Because someone can, you know, take 24 hours to respond to an email and that's their job, which is fine, but please, you know, don't do that.

But it's just, it's the, the, the speed of it. Like whenever, for example, Valentine's Day, that's one day. Like, I don't get to take my time baking these cookies.

I don't get to take my time making all these chocolate covered strawberries. Like, so I have to plan meticulously to make sure I have all the ingredients.

You have to do a lot of, you have to do a lot of work before you actually start the work. So I have to make sure I have my prep in order. I have to make sure like, like for example, eggs are outrageous right now.

So I had to like market research. Where's the best bang for my buck for the egg so I don't lose any money.

Because I already gave these people quotes like a couple months ago before egg prices went up. So now I have to honor my word. That's rough. And yeah, yeah, that was fun. But it's just so you have to.

Very few jobs, you get to go to work and just do it, but you have to, in this situation, work before the work.

Joe Dea: 00:35:07

That's so much, that's so much goes in before like you turn on those lights and everybody. I think the thing people think about when they think about the restaurant business, if they think about the line, they think about service.

They think about that time where orders are coming in and orders are going out. And don't get me wrong, that is a substantive part of a work shift. But what you don't see is hours upon hours of prep time going into it.

If you're talking about private event or you're talking about a home based business, or you're talking about something along those lines, it's all of the prep work. Like, like Peng is talking about research and making sure that you've got everything ready to go.

So that way you've timed it correctly that you don't have a whole bunch of stuff sitting around because you've done it too early.

Likewise, you can hit a, a deadline and all, all like you, you could have easily 12 hours worth of prep time for a single 3, 4, 5 hour dinner service and then have all of the closing stuff and get everything ready to go. That's why like my wife has a hard time.

Like she's gotten used to it now, but it was hard for her at first when she realized just how broken my brain is when it comes to doing 87 different things at the same time. And the fact that I can.

I can multitask at such a degree, because if you cannot do that, the dead truth of it is you will not survive in the industry. It is just that simple.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:57

Yeah, I mean, I'm pile onto that a little bit and then add some other things, I think, and see what you guys think when it comes to food industry. But to pile on, like, literally, it makes so much sense to everyone.

Like, no one really thought about it at our store that they were having a hard time this morning and someone said, oh, it's because Josh wasn't there Friday. No one had to question that at all. It's because, like, I am the one who orders the truck.

And if the truck's wrong one day, that means all of the days the next week are going to be bad. All going to be bad days. Yeah. So like, like some of those things just makes perfect sense.

The things that are really weird in the food industry for me, that I think you guys will probably agree. One, I'm going to say this one really quickly to move on to the other one. People talk about how, like, you talk like a sailor.

Nah, People at food curse way more than any sailor. So that's just part of the culture. The other thing is, like, there's this weird, like, competitiveness.

Even though you all have to work on a team, you always have, like, the front of the house arguing about the back of the house.

You always have, like, morning shift, doesn't like night shift to night shift, doesn't like morning shift because, like, you're constantly like, oh, hey, I'm struggling now because, because what they did yesterday, so I'm mad at them, but also I need to work with them. So you have this, like, weird dichotomy of, like, constantly in competition but also constantly trying to work together. And it's.

It's a tension that never goes away and just gets worse and worse always.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:20

I do, I love, I love the competitiveness of a kitchen, specifically a prep kitchen, because my, my boss's boss, you know, guy who makes six figures and if he wanted, could just sit at home and do pretty much nothing. Most days he doesn't because he is pretty good at his job.

But he could, if you wanted to, more than willing, fully willing, used to ask for it to come in and try to beat somebody's prep records in your store. Super fun. Yeah, I love that. Something that wants to make everybody better. That's that's what it's all about for me.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:59

Yeah, I had the record for a lot of cut time speeds and in our region for our restaurant, until the person beat me. And then the person who beat me got fired like a week later. So I don't think that counts.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:11

I could beat you.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:12

That's true. But you're not in my pack anymore, so I'll have to worry about that. Also, I trained you, so I feel like I still get some credit a little bit.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:19

Maybe Josh groomed my entire life.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:24

Stop saying that.

But, you know, speaking of, like, how camp doesn't count, you do know that, like, I helped run the camp kitchen once because they were just being so groomer risk adverse. I had to go, like, teach them how to.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:39

They're all just old people. They're harmless.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:41

Yeah, well, you know, they don't, they just don't follow. Health problem.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:45

Harmless.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:45

I helped. I helped a little bit one year.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:47

Harmless.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:48

Okay. Anyway, any other things as far as, like, the culture of food industry that people should know about before we get into the meat of the episode?

40 minutes in.

Joe Dea: 00:39:56

Yeah. I've got to double down on the competitiveness, at least on my side of the kitchen. When I was active in the industry, I was a jerk. I was not.

I pushed people. I wanted to make people better was what I told myself. But there is a, there is an institutionalization of a way, just.

Just a way that it's done of I was brought in a certain way. And in order to make real chefs, you've got to bring them in a certain way, and that is to dog them until they get better.

And don't get me wrong, there are some people that are out there that have some of the best knife skills that you could imagine or, or have become better chefs after working with me. But at what cost? You know what I mean?

And part of it is there's only when, when you are outside of leadership, there's only certain, a certain number. There's only a finite number of full time hours to allocate.

And so you've got to prove yourself to get those hours to get, to make sure that you, that you are full time.

When you are in leadership, there's this weird thing of I have reached the top of the mountain, and that means that every wolf is coming to knock me off the mountain.

And so every time that we would get somebody that would come in, in Stodge, anytime that we would get a new guy, it would be my goal to make sure that I, that they knew who the guy was that they knew who was head of the pack. Now, mind you, there is nothing healthy about what I'm describing.

This is not good practice and something that I have tried very hard now at this stage of my life, at this stage of my culinary career, to be able to give back to young chefs, to be able to give back to younger students.

So that way, for all of the pissing and moaning and groaning that we do about not liking working with culinary students and all of this kind of stuff, then teach them something. Then give them some experience that they can sink their teeth into.

So that way, when they do hit a line, when they do hit the restaurant, they actually know what they're doing. Mentor them, give them something.

And so, yes, what you're talking about, even at the level of, of fast, casual or anything like that, is, is true and systematic. Straight up to, you know, five star fine dining, which, for. For frame of reference, I've done all of those different versions of the culinary world.

My favorite is upscale tavern. I think some of the most creative stuff is coming out of upscale tavern restaurants on. On the savory side.

Part of it is I don't think it should take seven people to plate one single dish. That's just not. I'm saying if you need tweezers to plate the plate, I think, I think maybe we've. We've lost track of things.

TJ Blackwell: 00:43:08

I love molecular gastronomy. Super interesting. Not something I do, because that, yeah, pretty much do need a degree for that. I just think it's awesome.

Extremely impractical and not nearly as groundbreaking as it seems, but I think it's awesome.

So for the meat of these episodes, we wanted to walk through 12 big theological topics often debated by theologians, podcasters, and pastors to see how those ideas impact people's everyday lives. We've covered our everyday lives at one point or another, and it's food.

So we're going to talk about the 12 topics that our Facebook group voted on as the biggest theological hot topics of our time.

And we need you to tell us if you find the topic somewhat relevant, not relevant, really relevant, or you've never heard of it, which is fine and probably going to be normal. And then we're gonna pick one to three of the topics to discuss further. Is everyone clear about the rules?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:44:12

Yeah, Yep, I almost said correct.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:14

Relevant, Somewhat relevant, not really.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:44:16

Good.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:17

All right, soteriology. And we'll just go pang answer and then Joe answer every time you answer now. Yes.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:44:28

I mean, I guess it's relevant.

Joe Dea: 00:44:30

Yeah, I guess so.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:32

Free will versus predestination.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:44:34

Relevant.

Joe Dea: 00:44:35

I don't want it to be relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:36

Unfortunately, it is in the workplace, specifically, is what we're talking about. So atonement models?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:44:44

No.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:45

Continuationism versus cessationism in regards to the gifts of the spirit.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:44:50

Well, actually, no. I had a conversation yesterday.

Joe Dea: 00:44:52

Yeah, that mid. That one's moderately relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:57

Christology.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:44:58

Yeah, yeah, I would say that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:02

God's nature.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:45:03

Oh, big one.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:05

Social justice. Yeah, yeah, I feel like that one is really relevant. I just, you know, we work in the South. The doctrine of imago dei.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:45:15

No, that's not relevant for me.

Joe Dea: 00:45:17

Not in those terms, so I guess, no.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:20

The nature of scripture.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:45:21

Yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:23

Ecclesiology and missiology, which is what it means to be the church and how the church approaches.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:45:29

It's not relevant for the industry, but it's relevant in my life.

Joe Dea: 00:45:32

Yeah, I would say the same thing.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:35

Demonology or angelology?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:45:37

Nope.

Joe Dea: 00:45:39

Yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:41

I've got anywhere from 1 to 300 demons. Every lunch rush, they just keep walking. In eschatology, it's relevant in my life, unfortunately.

Joe Dea: 00:45:52

Yes, it's. It's relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:54

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:54

Also, tj, we have to do this at some point, so one of us should do it now and the other one should do it at the end of the series.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:01

All right, you're gonna do it now. Ready?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:03

Oh, yeah. Super easy.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:04

Soteriology?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:05

Yes, very relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:06

Free will versus predestination?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:08

Not very relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:09

Atonement models?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:11

Somewhat relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:12

Continuationism versus cessationism?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:14

Very relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:15

Crustology?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:17

Somewhat relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:18

God's nature?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:19

Not relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:20

Social justice?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:21

Very relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:22

The doctrine of a Magu dei?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:24

Very relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:25

The nature of Scripture?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:27

Not relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:29

Ecclesiastical?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:31

Somewhat relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:32

Demonology or angelology?

Joshua Noel: 00:46:34

Not relevant. Eschatology in the workplace? Not relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:39

That is what the series is about.

Joshua Noel: 00:46:41

Yeah. In general, yes, but that's. Yeah. Not what the series is about. So.

All right, guys, if you had to pick one or two, I'm gonna say everybody has to pick one for this particular episode, since there's two guests, I think that's fair. One of the above theological topics that you think are relevant to your day to day life to talk more about, what would it be? Let's start with Liz.

If you had to pick one of the above that you think is relevant.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:47:06

Pretty much like the. The. The Character of God 1. I know y'all said it's something different.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:12

But that one character of God. Could you unpack a little bit of why that's relevant?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:47:17

Yeah, I mean, you talked about, but a lot of people in that I get in the industry and just topics is they just can't understand why a good God or what, in their words, supposedly a good God, will let bad things happen. So they just. They don't get it. And it's like, well, why can't he just kind of like that Bruce or Evan Almighty thing?

Why can't he just, like, snap a finger and everything be good and my life be good and stuff like that? So just kind of like understanding the God's character and even, like, in love, you know, you don't get your way.

Like, a parent will discipline you and, like, love you through suffering, but you still have to suffer.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:56

Yeah. Yeah. All right. I like that. Joe, if you had to pick one of the 12 that you think's relevant to your life to unpack a little bit, what would it be?

Joe Dea: 00:48:04

Yeah, I am so. So specifically around the industry, I would say the same thing, the nature of God.

Because so many of the other ones that have come up as well as that one kind of fall back, like, if. If you.

If you follow the breadcrumb trail back to where the major point of disconnection is, it's a misunderstanding of the nature of God or a lack of full and complete understanding to the nature or character of God.

And so a lot of times when you're having conversations about free will, about a good God, about the church, about those different topics and things like that, it kind of goes back to that central idea of who God is in the first place.

Joshua Noel: 00:48:59

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Good stuff. I'll also go to make things fair. So I are both doing this part of the thing.

I'm going to pick the Mago Day as the one I think is particularly relevant. I feel like if we taught this better because there's so many Christians in the world, people might treat each other better.

Specifically, you know, with the food industry, there are a lot of times where I see people treating other people as though they just simply don't matter. Like, a customer is just like another number. Other people you work with, they're just.

They're stepping stones, or they're just, you know, you can talk to them like they just trash whatever, and it's like, no, like, let's see each other in the image of God. Like, we're people who actually matter. I think it would make the workplace better and probably the world.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:42

Yeah.

That is, like, the exact reason that I do love my job, because I know the people who are, like, freaks about Chipotle and, like, can't wait to go, like, every day.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:49:54

Chipotle is my Life.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:56

And I. Yeah, I just like to make people's day better. So I, I'm able to take a lot of pride in the fact that I'm doing that for a lot of people.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:03

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:50:04

Also, at the same time, I'm able to judge these people because why are you spending $27 on lunch five days a week?

Joshua Noel: 00:50:12

That's not where we're going.

TJ Blackwell: 00:50:16

And I'm just saying it's a lot of money.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:50:19

I work for my money.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:21

That's true. I also would not spend my money at Chipotle. It's just so expensive and frankly, mediocre food.

Joe Dea: 00:50:27

Oh, wait a minute. Did I say the quiet part? Not mine.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:31

That also does depend which store you go to. I think personally it does.

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:50:38

Personally, I like Moe's better, but it's fine.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:41

I agree. They have more options. Yeah. But bacon. Yeah, bacon does belong on anything. That's why I don't call myself a chef.

I will hold to that belief no matter what. Pretty much.

TJ Blackwell: 00:50:57

Does any. Do any one of the topics that we mentioned are that. Do you think they're particularly irrelevant to your everyday life?

Joe, like, so are these just like. Yeah, that's never coming up.

Joe Dea: 00:51:11

Generally, something like eschatology or something along those lines is not. It's not going to be something that I reach for unless somebody specifically has a. A question about it. Because so much of the focus is how.

How do we love God well, follow Jesus well and love others well. And sure, as Christians, we have the argument of, you know, of a future hope and all of that jazz. No problems.

But whenever it happens, however it happens, whatever the situation is, okay, like it's. That. That's what it's going to be. That's what's up. That's when I. But, but I've.

I think we've got more than enough on our plate today as practicing Christians in the workplace. And I'm trying very hard.

Like you said at the very, at the very beginning, you all kind of like really cross the streams on this one because you're talking to people that are very steeped in the ministry world as well as the culinary world.

And so I'm really trying very hard to answer these purely from a workplace perspective, because all of this, a lot of what I'm saying also you could copy and paste. But to, to. To my ministry life and, and my pastoral life. But, but that's. That. That's its own category and thing.

But I think whether you're hitting it from the God POV with. If you have people generally in the restaurant business, We're a bunch of pirates. Like, we've come.

We come together because we are a bunch of pirates. And it is an industry that really, really welcomes St. Anne Sinner to like, unlike really any other industry that there is.

And so a lot of times you have people asking really big questions. So that's why those, those kinds of things get pointed to, how do I. How do I live this life? And what does that mean in terms of God?

So really having people focus on, is it going to happen this way, Is it going to happen that way? Is it going to happen in two years? Is it going to happen in 87 years? Is it going to happen In 23, 47 years? I don't know and I don't care.

It's going to happen. And awesome that it's going to happen, but that's not that. That's. That's not the, the main point for me.

Joshua Noel: 00:53:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Also, just something Joe said reminds me of, like, one of the cool things of the food industry is you do have to serve anybody, basically anybody and everybody. If you own your own business, it's a little bit different.

But, you know, it's humbling when someone comes in with a shirt you find offensive or something that's like, God's not real, you know, whatever. And you're like, I still have to serve them same way I would everybody else.

And, you know, it's kind of like washing the feet of 200 people every lunch, but without the feet part. Yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:16

Some days I would rather wash 200 pairs of feet.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:20

Me too. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:21

Sundays, specifically for us.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:23

Sundays aren't that bad for us.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:25

Right. But, but I was like, I do agree, like eschatology. I don't spill oil in my kitchen and then think, oh, this is just like revelation.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:37

I wish for hellfire sometimes.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:41

What about you, Peng? Any one of these topics stand out to you?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:54:44

As particularly irrelevant for me would be the demonology one. Because whenever I do talk with people, because it's usually natural conversation, it's like, how's it going? Blah, blah.

I was like, oh, tell me about this.

And so when I get the opportunity to share my faith, I want just to talk about Jesus because they're either A, they already know about it and stuff, or B, they absolutely, like, don't know anything. And so before you can get into, like, demonology, angel, like angel. But I just want to, like, you know, talk to them about Jesus.

And so that's why it's least relevant for me now, like Christians and people we talk about it all the time. But so in my workplace or when I was in the corporate, like, kitchen, it hardly ever came up.

I mean, as TJ said, some people act demonic, but they didn't want to talk about themselves like that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:55:41

Yeah, yeah.

So as people who are all ministerially active to different degrees and have also worked with the public, what topics would you rather hear about in the church or from our theologians? Like, what should the pastors be focusing on to be relevant to the chefs of our world?

Elizabeth Clyde: 00:56:04

I think the nature of what it means to be saved, because I feel like we have this watered down Christianity that the world has accepted. And so a lot of the times it's like, oh, I know Jesus, so I'm good. But they don't know what it means to be set apart.

So I feel like that's something like we can focus on. Even the people who have been saved for 20 years and they think they have it all together.

Just having that fresh, like, connection with Jesus, I feel like that's really neglected.

Joe Dea: 00:56:34

I think for me, I think it's about bringing it out of, out of the classroom, out of the pulpit, and into the everyday lives of people. There is the main crux of what Jesus taught us is Matthew 5, 7. And then the expectation is you go and do it.

The expectation is you live this out and in the context of church and in the context of what is coming from Christianity. So much of it is centered around serving others. So much of it is around what does it mean to follow Christ.

And if we can bring that to a point of not arguing about a theological or doctrinal stance, not arguing about a sociological point of view or something along those lines, and bring it to a layer where the people who are the.

The everyday person is coming to understand who Jesus is, how God sees humanity, the nature of God, and what it means to live that out, that's where you start to see a new day dawn in the everyday life of a Christian.

And Christians doing the obedience part, not out of works or religious piety or anything like that, but because they understand that out of relationship and love, you show love and serve other people. You love God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength, and love others as yourself.

And I fundamentally believe that we can put all of those things into terms that is grabbable and capturable by everyday people, where you don't need all of this ministry background or to use half of the words like you use those words. TJ and everybody on this call gets it right. We have the training and the.

Or the credentials or the experience or whatever to know what you're talking about when you say that. And to the target audience of the whole church, that makes all of the sense in the world.

You're putting it into terms that the target audience will understand an everyday person, a dude that just got out of prison who. The only dude, the only gig that he can get is working the grill at a tavern or working at a local restaurant.

And he's just trying to put one foot in front of the other to do better with his life and to care for his family or whatever the case may be. He doesn't know what soteriology is. He doesn't know what ecclesia. Know any of these words mean. But what he does know is practical application of the.

The core tenets and foundations of what it means to follow Jesus well and love others well.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:46

Yeah. Oh, man.

TJ Blackwell: 00:59:48

Do you know McDonald's doesn't hire felons, by the way? Isn't that weird?

Joshua Noel: 00:59:53

Yeah, yeah. I thought about resident would not be able to work at Chipotle, but yeah.

Anyway, you know, one of those things and Joe was kind of hitting on it there, so I feel like it's a good transition. Also, I forgot to mention this to tj, but he's going to be writing down the answers to that last question.

We just did 10A as well as this next question, because after our series, we're going to have a roundtable of just pastors and seminary teachers and say, hey, here's what people said. How do you respond to that? So I'm excited for that roundtable as well. But each of us see the world through different eyes, right?

Like kind of what Joe was talking about. And one of the things that, like, we have these pastors, church leaders, theologians who are listening to our show.

One thing's like, if they've never worked in food, there are certain parts of the world they just will never see. So what's something that you guys. I'll go to Liz first. Think that like our pastors, theologians who haven't worked in food might.

Could learn from your perspective that they might never get to see through your eyes when it comes to this.

Elizabeth Clyde: 01:00:59

Well, I mean, specifically food. They probably do not know how to maybe like just. Gosh, that's hard when you say for food, because for me it's like pastry.

So we all sweet, you know, because everything's sunshine in the pastry land. But I would say something that they may understand is just the.

Because I feel like they do because they have long hours they have early morning, they have unexpected delays. But so one thing that comes to mind that's kind of relevant and not relevant.

So if we have a Wednesday night service and you letting that spirit go and you're like, I just want the, you know, I want the spirit to flow and stuff like that. You don't have to wake up and open the bakery the next morning. So they're like, let's just let the spirit move. When we're not on a time schedule.

The heck I am, sir. I have to be at the bakery at 4am I don't get to sleep in. I don't get that. You know what I mean?

So I think they, they because, and it's such a blessing. And I remind my husband this all the time.

I'm like, this is your full time job, so you get flexibility, which is really a big blessing for those who get to do full time ministry and they don't have to be dual professionals. But that's just not the reality for a lot of people. You have to be mindful of other people's time. You know what I mean?

Like, just like the other night we had last night, we had a young adult tonight. And I was giddy. It got ended at a decent time because I wake up at 4am to bake before to work before I even go to my, my corporate job.

So I baked before then and it ended. But then like the last young adult nights, we had the dude at 10 o'clock, he's moving on.

He's like, I feel like the Lord wants us to take communion at 10 o'clock on a Monday night. I was like, sir, we have jobs the next day. Do you want us to be like kind to our co workers tomorrow? Because you get to sleep in.

Like you get to go into your office. So I guess like that's something they can be mindful and to think about.

Just because, I mean, your church, if you look at it in a ministry setting, I mean, you need your volunteers, obviously, like you're not, I don't want to say you're nothing without your volunteers because we're nothing without Jesus. But you just have to kind of like think of people's time. Because yes, it's all about Jesus, but you don't want.

I mean, you hear about church burnout all the time. If that loosely answers your question. I feel like I kind of like tiptoed around it.

TJ Blackwell: 01:03:22

Yeah, Peng hates the Holy Spirit.

Elizabeth Clyde: 01:03:24

I do not hate the Holy Spirit. I'm just saying if we would have.

Joshua Noel: 01:03:29

Added pneumology she would have said. Not that.

Elizabeth Clyde: 01:03:32

No, I'm just saying like, you, like, it's hard, you forget about it. Because yes, like, we love the spirit, we love it when it moves.

But like, you don't want an elementary school teacher who has to be at class at 6:30, you know what I mean? The next day. You want them to be kind, you want them to be the best. You want them to show the love of Jesus.

And I have trouble showing the love of Jesus with four hours of sleep.

Joshua Noel: 01:03:56

Yeah, no, I mean, I agree. I know Liz has to go, so you can leave whenever and we will miss you.

Elizabeth Clyde: 01:04:03

I'll catch what you say about me behind my back later.

Joshua Noel: 01:04:07

I'm gonna back you up. See it.

Elizabeth Clyde: 01:04:10

Appreciate you.

Joshua Noel: 01:04:10

But I. No, I agree. Time is one of the big things.

And that's one of the things I like, not just pastors, but even like my parents who just don't have similar jobs. People in food typically aren't just working one job. I'm lucky that I get to. But a lot of the people in food are working several different jobs.

They're also in school. They're also 500 different things. I am in two different master program and in school.

And people are like, well, can't you just once a month, you know that a Saturday you're gonna have free? And I'm like, no, actually I have two days free a week. One of them is constantly doing school. The other one is maybe I can sleep once.

And you know, even when it comes to like, I'm going to speak directly to our pastors and let Joe also go off. But like, and TJ probably has some stuff he would add too.

But like, you know, not only is it like, I think the given answer people would expect is also true of like, hey, the Sunday crowd is also just the worst people. They are so rude. And if someone's.

The fact that so many people leave church and can be that rude to people in the food things tell me like, we're not doing something right at the church. You know, you're not going to get tipped by the church people. That's an issue.

Joe Dea: 01:05:19

That's actually like a thing. So like, that's not, that's not a, that's not something that's a huge. With like that, that's not over.

Over dramatized by like TV shows or social media or whatever. But like, first off, if you watch the Bear, there's a scene that is probably the truest scene.

And, and for the sake of the two co hosts here, I will, I Will not put them in a situation where they've got to find a sensor button to cut to cut this out. But one chef says to another chef f Brunch.

My wife did not realize how true that was until we went to my former executive chef's restaurant that she opened up. And we were talking about how we used to run. Run brunch together. And she unsolicited looks at me and goes, yeah, at brunch.

And I'm like, yes, that's exactly it. But part of it is that crowd that does frequent a restaurant right after service is some of the absolute worst.

Joshua Noel: 01:06:17

Yeah. So maybe teacher of the spirit more too.

TJ Blackwell: 01:06:19

But I. I actually do firmly believe the reason that Chick Fil A is closed on Sunday is not so that their employees can go to church.

Joshua Noel: 01:06:28

Church.

TJ Blackwell: 01:06:28

It's so that they don't have to serve anyone that just came from church.

Joshua Noel: 01:06:32

Yeah.

I've actually heard from a lot of people if they had a choice when it comes to catering, if they were allowed to just not cater to church events, they would, because they don't tip.

But also, the main thing I actually wanted to say was, like, with the time thing that, like, Liz was getting at is like, also, it's like the way people talk in church. Like, they're giving you some wise advice. Just wake up a little bit early so you can read your Bible. I actually do that, but that means I'm waking.

Waking up at 3:30. You know, like, for people in food, that means something wildly different. Like, oh, wake up a little bit, stay up late or whatever.

And like, the way, like, a lot of the times in churches, the way people talk about, you just find a little bit of time to read your Bible.

And then I'm in here watching how early people have to get up, how the struggle is to just keep a restaurant opening, and then how late they have to close. And then I'm also in there, like, watching people on their lunch break.

And I know how busy normal people's lives are because people are trying to run into there, grab a burrito real quick and are like, oh, man, I don't have five minutes to grab my food. I'm like, they're complaining that they don't have enough time to grab food.

And that's like, that's something I feel like a lot of our pastors don't realize. Like, like. And this isn't, you know, this is me seeing people going to the restaurant. So this is like, normal American life is just that busy.

And I feel like a lot of our Seminary teachers and pastors maybe don't quite grasp that.

Joe Dea: 01:07:43

Yeah, I. I would. I would agree with all of that. So hard. Yes. And amen to, to everything that Pang said and everything that, that you said.

I'll hit a different angle. You had brought up before, Josh, that there is a grand equality when it comes to.

If you walk into the restaurant and you are wearing clothes and you have money, then the people in the back of the house must serve you. It matters not who you voted for, what you believe, where you're from, or any of those things.

So there is a force, equality of service in the restaurant business.

And I think that sometimes in the church world, in the ministry world, we get wrapped up in hardline divisions or specific scenarios or situationalism of, oh, I can. I. I have to first and foremost focus on this group of people. But then afterwards, if there's anything left, I can.

I can give to these, to these other people and different things like that.

And I think there's a rigidity that comes along with that when you look at not just who, but how, because a lot of times when people think about service, they think about time and they think about money. Oh, I don't have the time to do this. Oh, I don't have the money to give to this. Well, what about a kind word? What about a well placed phone call?

What if you make a meal and take it to somebody? What if you just spend time with that individual?

I think there's a creativity that comes out in the restaurant business that I think some chefs that have no idea about life outside, outside of the ministry bubble that they can learn from and understand that there is so much creativity that can be brought into caring for other people, that how uncomplicated it is to love your neighbor well, and how much you can accomplish with just a little bit of resources.

And not every single community event needs to be $500,000 and take seven months of planning and have 14 different committees and all to get this whole big extravaganza done that you can literally just throw the doors open and say, you know what, Come, come grab a meal. Come have something to eat. Come hang out. You know what I mean?

TJ Blackwell: 01:10:20

Yeah. Yep.

Joshua Noel: 01:10:21

And that, I mean, that gets. I'm gonna cheat.

I'm gonna offer up another one that you made me think of because you also like in the food, especially the front of house people will get this more than the back of house people. Now, I'm using food lingo, but it's fine.

Something that I think pastors don't See is like, a lot of our pastors and teachers spend a lot of time talking at people, talking to people. And even sometimes they're telling people to be good listeners. And so many people. And it's funny, I'm guilty of this.

When I've preached before, thinking, oh, some of the people talk afterwards, they just want to look pious or look like they're religious. And now I'm like, no, there's some people who literally just want anyone to talk to.

They will come to your restaurant and sit there and talk to the cashier for 10, 20 minutes. And your good cashiers know about pretty much every customer's life if they come in on a regular basis.

And your bad cashiers will spend the entire rest of the shift complaining about that guy and how he slowed us down talking to him so long. And like. Like, I have one guy that I work with who literally, like, oh, hey, man, how's your daughter? How's this? I knew this.

I had a guy who came in last Sunday. I know his diet plan. He was three pounds away. I'm like, hey, man, where are we at this week?

And there's something that, you know, when you're on the front line about these people that a lot of times in your church, you just don't know about people's life like that. And maybe it should be the other way around. Maybe you have anything as far as, like, insights from.

TJ Blackwell: 01:11:39

I feel like it would be really helpful for a pastor to work in a restaurant on a Sunday and see how little so many people think of other people.

Joe Dea: 01:11:51

Absolutely. Yeah. I. I think it would be jarring and eye opening for a pastor to come work the line on. On a Sunday or a Saturday night.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:01

Yeah. They. They don't care about you.

Joe Dea: 01:12:03

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:03

Customers, they don't. If you're behind the line, they don't care about you.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:07

Yeah. And it's so funny because I say.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:09

Like, six out of ten times.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:12

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:12

Well.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:12

And that's one of those language things that's interesting.

I feel like a lot of times in our church culture we say serve somebody, and we're thinking of, like, we're going to go do this event that's serving the community and feel good about ourselves afterwards.

Whereas if you talk to someone who worked in food about serving somebody, you're thinking about actually having to humble yourself, actually having to hear about someone's life and do something for them, even if they might be the rudest person on earth. So that word serving based on a different meaning.

Joe Dea: 01:12:38

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:38

Yeah. And also, so many people and it just seems to happen more often on Sundays. So come up to the front and be like, hi, is there a manager? They're so.

Hey, my table's dirty. Can somebody please come clean it?

Joshua Noel: 01:12:52

Yep.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:54

There's 40 people behind you.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:57

You want them all to wait on you? Yeah, of course.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:59

Of course I can come.

Joshua Noel: 01:13:00

It is an entire table. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:13:03

But also, no. They'll come complain about, like, the homeless guy sitting in the back. Like, is he. Is he bothering you, or is he just homeless in public? It's not.

It's not okay for him to be in here where it's dry and warm.

Joshua Noel: 01:13:18

Yeah.

Joe Dea: 01:13:18

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:13:19

Okay. Yeah. I'll definitely tell him to leave. I won't. Why would I do that?

Joshua Noel: 01:13:26

Yeah, he eats.

TJ Blackwell: 01:13:29

Yeah. Like, we do live in the south, so eventually somebody will buy him something to eat.

Joshua Noel: 01:13:33

That is also true. But, yeah, Joe, that book.

Joe Dea: 01:13:39

There's a book that was written by one of the former owners of an upscale restaurant in New York City called eleven Madison Park. The name of the book is Unreasonable Hospitality. Will is actually.

I suggested it to Will during the bear episode for Systematic Ecology, which, if you want to hear more of us geek out about chef stuff. Pang was on that one, too. Head over there. I'm not even on the show, and I'm doing cheap plugs there. Is that.

It is basically talking about how the whole thing was the model for what made them such a superior place, was unreasonable hospitality. That the idea is that you are so into with what the restaurant, what the customer needs or wants, that you're almost.

It almost seems like you're reading their mind because you're reading the room, you're reading people's body language. You are being so thoughtful of the other person that you are trying to provide whatever it is that they need before they have the chance to ask.

And that's a book that I would recommend to any pastor to go with, to go over, to go through with their staff. Because I say this, both as a chef and a pastor, it is our job to provide unreasonable hospitality. That is literally the name of the game.

That is the very heartbeat of it. And I think sometimes we do get so lost on what is the doctrinal stance. Who are we going catering to?

What are the numbers, how many people are showing up to the. To the services, what's the budget, all of those kinds of things.

And we lose sight of what it means to actually serve somebody, regardless of whether or not you like them, whether or not you would otherwise break bread with them, whether or not you agree with who they voted for.

Whether or not you think that they need to give some kind of public apology for whatever stance, whether or not you think that they're soft, whatever the case may be, this is the great equalizer that everybody needs to eat and that in the restaurant business, your money spends. You are welcome.

TJ Blackwell: 01:16:06

Yeah. Just speaking of hospitality, I want to rant for a quick second. Some people just don't get it like, that.

It's more worth it for, like, to let something slip by so that they'll come. They will come back. They're gonna come back.

You do not need to leave from behind the cash register and chase somebody down to get them to pay for a tortilla.

Joshua Noel: 01:16:27

Yeah, yeah. It's just not worth it. I. I will say, and this is one of those things, like, at first I was like, what is wrong with these people? And then the more.

The more I'm like, at the store I'm at now, I'm like, oh, actually, this is what all food should be like. And probably everything we do. I won't say the guy's name because illegally can't. Guy I work with, though.

I remember one of the first days I came in, I thought it was so wild. And it turns out it's because he actually also works as a chef in other restaurants. So he's just mindful working the line.

Out of nowhere, he grabs a bowl, puts rice and beans in it. And I'm like, what are you doing, man? And he's like, oh, it's cool. Guy walks through the door. I didn't see the guy's car coming.

Apparently, the other dude saw his car coming, was, hey, man, how's it going? Is it gonna be chicken or barbacola today? And he just knows this guy's order, saw his car, and he's just ready.

And I'm like, dude, that's way too much. And now I'm thinking about it, and I've been at the restaurant, this particular store long enough.

I'm like, no, maybe we should all just be a little bit like that. We know what kind of rice and beans he wants. We're not sure if he wants chicken or barbacoa, but I know him, and I'm ready for him.

And it's like, unreasonable hospitality. I like it. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:17:33

Yeah. Also, it's really annoys me when regular switch it up.

Joshua Noel: 01:17:39

Me too. I'm like, what do you mean? You don't get barbacoa. You get chicken. Stop.

TJ Blackwell: 01:17:43

Like, one time, and he felt so bad about it that he placed the order Online is, is how bad he felt about it. He ordered a kid's meal and I was grabbing it and taking it out to the shelf for our to go orders. And I was like, Josh.

And he was like, yeah, I didn't want to come through the line, but that's funny.

So in this series we are going to be speaking to a police officer, a middle school teacher, logistics worker, a biochemist, a brewer, a physical therapist, a welder, a strategic account manager, a ninja coach, which is a coach for ninjas and more. What would y'all be most interested in learning from a series like this? And is there anything specific that you were hoping we would ask?

And it's just you now, Joe. We exiled Pang for not being spirited.

Joe Dea: 01:18:42

I want to know what the between ministry and teaching ninjas looks like. That is, that is on the top of my list of what I would like to know.

But I think it's, I think it'd be interesting, all jokes aside, to know how do these things translate?

How do these principles and these ideas that we talk about that are so readily grabbed for by, by ministry professional, by pastors and things like that? What do these words mean to people in these different contexts?

Because I think it's been clear throughout this entire episode that in a variety of different ways, in a variety of different situations and contexts, we use words in the restaurant business that the ministry world uses different. And you can look at that and say why? Why did those things have two different, two different meanings?

You can look at those same words in other contexts and know that they mean different things. And so I think it'll be interesting to see as we have these go to lingo pieces that, that are.

So that, that are so canned and so cliche or so readily reachable, what does that mean to somebody else?

Joshua Noel: 01:20:00

Yeah, and speaking of which, I'm going to keep. Keep this on brand. You know, we, we always ask for tangible action at the end of each episode to help better engender church unity.

And I feel like a lot of people before have said to serve. You know, serve. I think it's a good answer. So I'm going to go with it. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it ask for something specific.

Joe, how can people better serve? You know, hearing this episode like oh wait, what serving am I actually serving?

What's something they could do do that's like truely serving another be present in.

Joe Dea: 01:20:33

In the situation in the context. So rather than either treating somebody like a one size fits all project or assuming that you think you know what the other person needs or wants.

Actually take time to be present in their context and ask them and. And find out how can you best use your time and talents. And if it's not that straightforward, be willing to get creative about it.

If you know that a person just needs somebody to talk to. Well, use. Use a situation that works for you in your context and that will bring life to them and make it more dynamic than.

Than just it has to look this hyper specific way or it has to fit this specific criteria in order to be real service.

Joshua Noel: 01:21:30

Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

TJ Blackwell: 01:21:32

All right. What. What changes? Joe? What we all start listening to? Joe, what happens?

Joe Dea: 01:21:39

The world is a much better place. You just listen to me. Tldr. You can learn two things.

Elizabeth Clyde: 01:21:44

If you.

Joe Dea: 01:21:44

If you miss missed this entire episode and you only listen to the front half in the back half, you know that paying hates the Holy Spirit. And if everybody just listens to me, the world is a much better place. That's all.

TJ Blackwell: 01:21:55

That's it. That's all you need to know.

Joe Dea: 01:21:56

Yeah. You then. Then you have people addressing real, real situations in real context. You have people who are.

Are really caring for the specific needs without feeling like they need to burn themselves out in order to actually care for other people and that they have. They can operate within the margins of their own life while still being present in the lives of other people.

TJ Blackwell: 01:22:22

All right, so before we wrap up, we're going to be doing our God moment. We will just ask everyone to share a moment in their life recently where they saw God.

Whether that be a blessing, challenge mode, worship, whatever it may be. Josh always goes first to give us that little peace of mind. So Josh, kind of a layup this week. Do you have a God moment for us?

Joshua Noel: 01:22:46

Yeah, I moved into a new home.

TJ Blackwell: 01:22:49

Wow.

Joshua Noel: 01:22:50

It was stressful and crazy, but a blessing all at the same time.

Then when all the stress and craze got over, it was my birthday and I was blessed with a steam deck that my good friend TJ is going to disciple me on how to use. So lots of blessings and also a lot of reminder of why I need to rest. Yeah. Physically, spiritually and all other ways. I just rest.

Elizabeth Clyde: 01:23:13

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:23:14

Yeah. For me, my God moment. The Chiefs lost the Super Bowl.

Joshua Noel: 01:23:22

That's a good God moment.

TJ Blackwell: 01:23:23

Yeah, it brings me a lot of joy. That's not what it is, but does bring me a lot of joy that the Chiefs lost the Super Bowl. My cousin got married this past Saturday.

Joe Dea: 01:23:37

Whoa.

TJ Blackwell: 01:23:38

That's great.

Joshua Noel: 01:23:39

You know, find the picture on Facebook. TJ Was dressed really nice. I was like, man, DJ looks good.

TJ Blackwell: 01:23:45

Yeah, it's an awful picture.

Joshua Noel: 01:23:47

It's really bad. TJ's still single. Also, ladies, this whole church dating app is coming out soon. Don't worry.

TJ Blackwell: 01:23:55

Yeah. Our next series is whole church speed dating. We will be moving to YouTube shorts and TikTok just for that series.

Joshua Noel: 01:24:03

Yeah. Yeah, of course.

TJ Blackwell: 01:24:05

Yeah. I love weddings. It's so fun to see who comes up with what.

Like, the end of Sea of a wedding is something that I feel like is really hard to match and it's awesome. I love weddings a lot, especially when they're all, like, within the family. It's just. It's fun to compare weddings.

Joshua Noel: 01:24:24

Not all within the family. He's from South Carolina, not West Virginia.

TJ Blackwell: 01:24:28

You know what I mean? Yeah, they're all my cousins weddings is what I'm talking about. But also, I was sitting there and this is just like, how big our family is.

And I was sitting there. I showed up not last, but pretty close to last. And I sat down in the front with the rest of my immediate family and I heard, like, the banjo playing.

And, like, when I was walking in, I acknowledged that it was a real person with a real banjo sitting back there and a man or woman with like, the woman had a guitar. She was singing. At no point did it cross my mind that that was. Was my aunt and uncle singing and playing in my cousin's wedding.

Not like her parents, but a different aunt and uncle. Until I saw their son running around and I was like, huh, Where's Paige and Jason? And someone's like, oh, they were behind you.

Joshua Noel: 01:25:21

Funny.

TJ Blackwell: 01:25:22

They were the ones playing the music, idiot. Yeah, my cousin Jason's the best banjo player in Tennessee. Officially several time winner.

Joshua Noel: 01:25:32

Now when you get into Tennessee, you're getting close to that West Virginia area too. So. I don't know, man. I'm from Tennessee. I'm allowed to make that joke.

TJ Blackwell: 01:25:39

But I don't know. I think best banjo player in Tennessee also does equate the best banjo player in the world. Anyway, Joe, do you have a God moment for us this week?

Joe Dea: 01:25:49

Yeah, I'm. I'm very close to being completely healed from breaking my leg. It is very close. So I'm. I got the. I got the word that I can start.

I can start moving around some without the. Without the brace on and all that stuff.

Joshua Noel: 01:26:11

That reminds me of my backup God moment. Copper has like one week left. He can take his muzzle off. He already has his sutures off, so he's also almost healed.

Joe, and Copper on this journey together, you know?

TJ Blackwell: 01:26:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Loudest muzzled dog I've ever seen.

Joshua Noel: 01:26:26

Yes, absolutely.

TJ Blackwell: 01:26:27

If you like this episode or if you hated this episode, why are you still here? This was an hour and a half long. If you made it, you should have left a long time ago.

If you hated this and you listen to the whole thing because you dropped your phone under your bed or something. I'm sorry. It's not over yet. Please consider sharing with a friend or an enemy. Share with your cousins.

Joshua Noel: 01:26:48

I especially your cousins at their wedding. Stop them in the middle of their ceremony and share this episode with them.

TJ Blackwell: 01:26:54

Yeah, that's what I want personally from you.

Joe Dea: 01:26:58

Hit.

TJ Blackwell: 01:26:58

Like, hit, subscribe, hit. Josh.

Joshua Noel: 01:27:01

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:27:02

Holds your oyster.

Joshua Noel: 01:27:03

Probably possible. Probably a good thing to do. Hey, guys, check out all the shows in the Onaza podcast network too. Coming soon. I'm doing Coming Soon.

Pastor Will Rose is starting a show. We'll laugh about that later. Talk about stories that weren't funny at the time, but they find it funny now. Also, check out Friday Night Frights.

Joe Day helps out over there with Christian Ashley and they talk about frights on Friday nights. Not every Friday night, but Friday nights. Yeah. A lot of other good shows in the network too, so check them all out, perhaps.

Joe Dea: 01:27:34

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:27:35

And we do hope you enjoyed it.

Next week we are going to continue the Job Fair series with Nick Polk, the production editor of Maloran, author of Tolkien Pop Culture and a middle school teacher. And then we're going to be joined by Ryan Doze, the host of Skipping Church and Across the Bifrost.

He's also a merchandiser for a regional bread company. After that, Jerry Koontz, Josh's uncle, devout Catholic, and strategic account manager for Spectrum, will join us to keep the series pushing.

And at the end of season one, Francis Chan will be joining us.

Joshua Noel: 01:28:07

Probably if someone tells him about it. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:28:10

As a host, actually.

Joshua Noel: 01:28:12

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:28:12

Not a guest.

Joshua Noel: 01:28:13

Yeah. When he joins is the season one ends because it becomes an entire different podcast. So it'll become the Francis Chan podcast. Perhaps.

TJ Blackwell: 01:28:21

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 01:28:21

I don't know. Season two is beyond us.

TJ Blackwell: 01:28:23

Yeah. The whole chance.

ay - Porter's Gate Collective: 01:28:37

To us, Lord, have mercy be on us, Lord Please put your hand on us Day by day Lord, we go Lord, have mercy on us Lord Please put your hand on us day by day.