The Whole Church Podcast

anazao ministries

We aim to see the whole Church, whole again. We will do this by interviewing Church leaders of various backgrounds, cultures, and denominations to see how we can pursue complete unity in Christ. We will also investigate historic arguments in the Church and how the Church has maintained unity in the face of diverse beliefs in the past. . Each episode we will leave our audience with a tangible takeaway that will enable us to take action towards real, practical Church unity. . Rate us & leave a review: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-whole-church-podcast-104837 . Sign up for our newsletter: thewholechurch@gmail.com . Follow us on Social: facebook.com/thewholechurchpodcast Twitter @thewholechurch Instagram @wholechurchpodcast . Make a one-time donation: Cashapp $wholechurch . Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/thewholechurchpodcast . Subscribe to our show: https://the-whole-church-podcast.captivate.fm/listen

  1. 5D AGO

    Building Community Through Creative Careers: Kristen Tideman on Event Planning

    In this enlightening dialogue, Kristen Tideman, the proprietor of Tidy Studios and a skilled event planner and website designer, articulates the profound interrelation between one's professional endeavors and theological discourse. We delve into her experiences that illuminate how the theological discussions prevalent in churches and seminaries resonate—or fail to resonate—in the quotidian lives of individuals. Kristen's reflections reveal the vital importance of viewing work not merely as a solitary pursuit but as a collective endeavor that impacts the community at large. Through her insights, we explore the implications of church spaces being utilized as vibrant community centers, fostering connection and support rather than isolation. This episode ultimately invites listeners to reconsider the practical applications of theology in their everyday occupations and community engagements. The latest installment of our Whole Church Job Fair series features an enlightening dialogue with Kristen Tideman, the proprietor of Tidy Studios, an enterprise specializing in event planning and website design. Engaging with our hosts, Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell, Kristen delves into the intersection of her professional endeavors and her theological upbringing. Having been introduced to Kristen through the Theology Beer Camp—a cherished annual gathering of theological discourse and community—this episode explores how her background in church and faith informs her approach to work in a modern, often secular landscape. Kristen offers a unique perspective on how theological discussions can resonate within the vocational realm, emphasizing the importance of fostering authentic community connections through both events and digital platforms. Throughout the conversation, Kristen reflects on her journey from a deeply rooted evangelical upbringing to her current role as a facilitator of events that bridge gaps between faith and everyday life. She articulates the intricate dynamics of creating spaces where individuals can explore their beliefs without fear of judgment. As she discusses her work with Tidy Studios, she highlights the significance of presenting oneself authentically in professional settings, and how this authenticity can contribute to building one another up in a community. The episode serves as a poignant reminder of how our daily occupations can reflect our theological convictions, inviting listeners to consider the broader implications of their work in the context of faith. Moreover, Kristen's insights into the practical aspects of event planning provide valuable lessons for church leaders and community organizers alike. By sharing her experiences, she underscores the necessity of being responsive to the needs of diverse audiences, particularly in church settings that strive to remain relevant in an evolving cultural landscape. This dialogue not only illuminates Kristen's personal journey but also invites listeners to engage in self-reflection regarding their own vocational paths in relation to their faith. As the episode unfolds, it becomes clear that the theological conversations held in churches and seminaries do indeed have the potential to influence and enrich our everyday lives, particularly through the lens of community engagement and service. Takeaways: In this episode, Kristen Tideman articulates the profound impact of community on one’s work, emphasizing that our efforts in various jobs can significantly support and uplift others. Kristen discusses the importance of accessibility in digital work, highlighting how a website should not only reflect the individual but also cater to the audience's needs and expectations. The conversation touches upon the theological implications of our daily occupations, suggesting that our work can be a form of ministry and a means to serve others in tangible ways. Kristen provides insights into how churches can better use...

    1h 7m
  2. MAR 19

    Faith in the Workplace: Uncle Jerry's Insights

    Jerry Kuntz, a strategic account manager and devout Catholic, discusses the profound intersection of faith and work. Within the framework of our series, "The Whole Church Job Fair," we explore how his religious convictions shape his professional life. Kuntz emphasizes the importance of fostering positive relationships in the workplace, articulating that the essence of work transcends mere transactional interactions; it is fundamentally about community and support. By sharing his insights, he illuminates how theological principles can manifest in practical, everyday scenarios, prompting a critical examination of the relevance of seminary discussions to real-world occupations. This episode invites listeners to reflect on their own faith journeys and the ways in which their beliefs inform their professional endeavors. The dialogue between Uncle Jerry Kuntz and Joshua Noel serves as a profound exploration of how faith intersects with the realm of professional life, particularly through the lens of Uncle Jerry's experiences as a strategic account manager. Throughout their conversation, Uncle Jerry articulates the significance of maintaining a steadfast commitment to his Catholic values in a corporate environment. He emphasizes the necessity of fostering supportive relationships among colleagues, echoing the Church's teachings on community and service. This episode serves as a poignant reminder that one's faith can be a guiding force in navigating the complexities of the workplace, urging listeners to embody principles of compassion and integrity in their daily interactions. Moreover, the conversation delves into the relevance of theological discussions in shaping everyday experiences. Uncle Jerry reflects on the challenges of integrating theological concepts into practical applications within the workplace, advocating for a closer alignment between theological education and the realities faced by church members in various professions. This dialogue underscores the importance of church leaders engaging with the lived experiences of their congregants, ensuring that theological discussions remain relevant and applicable to the diverse contexts in which individuals find themselves. The episode ultimately encourages listeners to contemplate how their faith can inform their professional choices, inspiring them to create a culture of empathy and support in their respective fields. As the episode unfolds, Uncle Jerry's insights into the dynamics of the corporate world reveal the complexities of maintaining one's principles in a fast-paced, results-driven environment. He shares anecdotes that highlight the importance of prioritizing relationships over mere productivity, advocating for a work ethic that mirrors the teachings of the Church. This discussion serves as a call to action for listeners, inviting them to reflect on their own professional lives and consider how they can embody their faith in tangible ways, fostering a workplace environment that aligns with their values. Takeaways: Jerry Kuntz emphasizes the importance of building one another up in both faith and work. He articulates that effective communication is vital for successful teamwork in account management. The podcast explores how theological discussions can be applicable to everyday occupational challenges. Uncle Jerry reflects on the significance of maintaining a positive attitude amidst workplace negativity. . The Music in this episode is "Day by Day" by the Porter's Gate Collective. We received written permission for use of their song in this series and hope everyone will consider going over to hear the full song for themselves. . Check out all of the other shows in the Anazao Podcast Network: https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm . Don't miss any of...

    1h 2m
  3. From Bread Merchandising to Theological Discussions: Ryan Does Joins the Podcast

    MAR 12

    From Bread Merchandising to Theological Discussions: Ryan Does Joins the Podcast

    This episode comprehensively examines the intersection of faith and daily vocation, as we continue our Whole Church Job Fair series. With Ryan Does, a seasoned merchandiser for a regional bread company and an accomplished podcaster, we delve into the relevance of theological discussions often reserved for seminaries and churches. We explore how the principles of the Imago Dei and social justice manifest in everyday work, particularly in the context of Ryan's experiences. Throughout our discourse, we reflect on the necessity of empathy, community, and authentic engagement in both professional and spiritual realms. Ultimately, this conversation seeks to illuminate how our daily occupations can serve as a canvas for embodying our faith in tangible, meaningful ways. Ryan Does joins us to delve into the nexus of everyday work and the theological concepts often debated within church circles and seminaries. As a merchandiser for a regional bread company and the host of two podcasts, 'Across the Bifrost' and 'Skipping Church', Ryan offers a unique perspective on how theological discussions can permeate our daily lives, particularly through the lens of his own experiences in the workplace. The conversation navigates the relevance of theological themes such as the doctrine of the Imago Dei and social justice, arguing that these concepts are not merely abstract principles but are intimately tied to the way we engage with one another in our communities and professions. Through anecdotes and thoughtful dialogue, we explore how integrating these theological insights can foster a more compassionate society and encourage meaningful connections among individuals, ultimately enriching both personal and communal life. The episode further investigates the significance of soft skills and conflict resolution in Ryan's line of work, shedding light on the often-overlooked aspects of everyday professions that reflect deeper theological truths. We confront the challenges faced by church leaders in addressing real-world issues with authenticity and empathy, advocating for a shift away from superficial engagement towards deeper, more meaningful interactions. By examining how our work can serve as a manifestation of our faith, Ryan inspires listeners to consider the ways in which their own occupations can contribute to the greater good and the embodiment of Christlike qualities in the world around us. In a broader context, the discussion underscores the necessity for church leaders and theologians to remain grounded in the realities of everyday life, recognizing that their teachings must resonate with the lived experiences of their congregations. As Ryan articulates, fostering a church culture that values genuine relationships over mere performance can lead to a richer, more fulfilling expression of faith that transcends traditional boundaries. Ultimately, this episode serves as a clarion call for unity and understanding within the Church, urging us to embody the principles of love and service in every facet of our lives, especially in our workplaces. Takeaways: In the contemporary context, the theological discussions pertinent to church and seminary can profoundly influence daily occupational practices and interpersonal interactions. Ryan Does articulates that integrity in one's work serves as a testimony to one's character and can foster meaningful relationships within the community. The podcast emphasizes the significance of viewing others through the lens of the imago Dei, advocating for empathy and understanding in all interpersonal relationships. Through addressing theological topics, the hosts aim to bridge the gap between ecclesiastical discourse and the realities faced by individuals in their everyday lives. . . The Music in this episode is "Day by Day" by the Porter's Gate Collective. We received written permission for use of their song in...

    1h 15m
  4. Theological Insights from the Classroom: A Conversation with Nick Polk

    MAR 5

    Theological Insights from the Classroom: A Conversation with Nick Polk

    Today, we engage in an enlightening dialogue with Nick Polk, a distinguished high school English teacher and a returning guest who has graced our podcast on three prior occasions. The crux of our discussion revolves around the intersection of ecclesiology and education, wherein Nick elucidates the pivotal role that educators play within the church community. He offers profound insights into how teachers are integral to shaping young minds and fostering a sense of unity and cooperation among students, reflecting the broader mission of the church. Furthermore, we explore the complexities of free will and predestination, contemplating their implications not only within theological discourse but also in the realm of education. As we navigate these intricate themes, listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the multifaceted relationship between faith and vocation, particularly within the context of contemporary educational practices. The distinguished episode presented showcases a compelling dialogue with Nick Polk, a revered high school English teacher and expert in Tolkien scholarship. The discourse delves into the profound intersection of education and faith, emphasizing the pivotal role that educators play within the church community. Polk articulates a vision of teaching that transcends the mere transmission of knowledge; he posits that education should serve as a conduit for moral and spiritual development. This perspective challenges conventional paradigms, urging educators to embrace their vocation as a sacred calling imbued with theological significance. As the conversation unfolds, we explore critical theological themes, including the complexities of ecclesiology and the perennial debate surrounding free will versus predestination. Polk's insights illuminate how these concepts resonate within the educational sphere, particularly as they relate to the cultivation of ethical reasoning and personal growth among students. The episode further reflects on how educators can integrate faith into their teaching practices, fostering an environment that nurtures both intellectual and spiritual growth. Through personal anecdotes, Polk illustrates the challenges and rewards of teaching, underscoring the necessity of empathy and understanding in navigating the diverse experiences of students. Ultimately, this episode serves as a clarion call for church leaders and educators alike to unite in their mission to create inclusive and compassionate educational environments. Polk's reflections compel us to reconsider our roles within our communities, advocating for a collaborative approach that prioritizes the holistic development of students. The dialogue not only invites listeners to engage with profound theological questions but also encourages a reimagining of the educational landscape, highlighting the transformative power of teaching as a vehicle for spiritual and community enhancement. Takeaways: Nick Polk emphasizes that the role of teachers is pivotal in shaping the moral and ethical foundations of young minds, which has far-reaching implications for society. He discusses the interconnectedness of various subjects in education, advocating for a holistic approach that integrates history, literature, and personal development. Polk reflects on the challenges teachers face in addressing emotional and personal crises among students, highlighting the need for flexibility and empathy in the classroom. He argues that the ecclesiology of the church should inform educational practices, fostering a sense of community and cooperation among students. The conversation touches on the importance of free will in education, urging educators to empower students to take control of their learning journeys. Lastly, Polk calls for church communities to actively support educators, recognizing their contribution to the greater mission of nurturing the next...

    57 min
  5. Exploring Relevance in the Food Industry: A Whole Church Job Fair

    FEB 26

    Exploring Relevance in the Food Industry: A Whole Church Job Fair

    The inaugural episode of our mini-series, "The Whole Church Job Fair," delves into the intricate dynamics of the food industry. Our hosts, Joshua Noel and TJ (Tiberius Juan) Blackwell, engage in a rigorous dialogue with esteemed guests, Joe Dea, a savory chef, and Elizabeth (Pang) Clyde, a distinguished pastry chef. The central theme of this episode revolves around the relevance of theological discussions in the day-to-day realities of those laboring within the culinary sphere. Through their shared experiences and insights, we seek to elucidate whether the doctrinal topics expounded upon in ecclesiastical settings resonate with the lived experiences of these culinary professionals. As we embark on this exploration, we aim to bridge the gap between sacred discourse and secular vocations, thereby fostering a deeper understanding of how faith intersects with everyday labor in the food industry. The podcast episode presents a rich tapestry of insights regarding the intrinsic value of various professions and the overarching theme of service to others as rooted in Christian doctrine. One speaker eloquently articulates the notion that professions, whether they belong to farmers, painters, or nurses, embody a divine calling to contribute to the common good, thereby revealing the sacredness inherent in labor. The discussion seamlessly intertwines theological reflections with practical applications, particularly emphasizing the biblical exhortation found in Ephesians 4. This scriptural passage advocates for truthfulness, constructive communication, and communal support, underscoring the responsibility of individuals within the Church to uplift one another through their respective vocations. The speakers challenge listeners to consider how their everyday work can reflect their faith, calling upon examples from various professions discussed, thereby reinforcing the idea that every job can be a platform for ministry and service. Ultimately, the episode encourages a holistic view of faith that encompasses all aspects of life, urging listeners to embrace their roles with a sense of purpose and commitment to the betterment of their communities, guided by love and grace. Within this engaging episode, a profound exploration emerges surrounding the intersection of faith and everyday work, particularly in the context of the food industry. The speakers invite professionals from various backgrounds to share their experiences, emphasizing how theological concepts impact their daily lives. Through a candid discussion about the challenges faced by those employed in service-oriented fields, the podcast illustrates the often-overlooked struggles and triumphs of individuals who serve in restaurants, kitchens, and beyond. By dissecting the scriptural principles outlined in Ephesians, the hosts draw connections between the moral imperatives of the faith and the ethical responsibilities of workers in high-pressure environments. Additionally, the episode sheds light on the necessity for compassion and understanding within the workplace, advocating that every interaction carries the potential to reflect Christ's love. The speakers stress the importance of community and support, urging listeners to engage in acts of kindness, recognizing the inherent dignity of every worker, thereby fostering a spirit of unity and collaboration in the pursuit of a greater good. Takeaways: The food industry demands a level of dedication and professionalism that often goes unrecognized in discussions about everyday work. Understanding the nature of God and His character is crucial for those working in high-pressure environments like restaurants. The dynamic of serving others in the restaurant industry offers valuable insights into the essence of Christian service and community. There exists a significant disparity between the perceived relevance of theological discussions and the actual experiences of those in the

    1h 31m
  6. Understanding Discipleship: A Journey, Not a Roadmap

    FEB 12

    Understanding Discipleship: A Journey, Not a Roadmap

    The crux of our discourse centers on the profound significance of love as articulated by Jesus in John 13:34-35, wherein He commands His disciples to love one another as He has loved them. In our conversation with Pastor Matt Walker Thrift, the Lead Pastor of Koerner Heights Church and author of "Follow: Genuine Discipleship in the Modern Age," we delve into the intricacies of discipleship in the contemporary context. Pastor Thrift elucidates that true discipleship transcends mere adherence to a set of directives; rather, it embodies a transformative journey of faith and relational love that one shares with God and others. As we explore the complexities of human relationships and the challenges inherent in embodying Christ's command, we also reflect on the essential practices of prayer, scripture reading, and community engagement that facilitate genuine discipleship. Through this dialogue, we aim to foster a deeper understanding of what it means to be a disciple in today's multifaceted world. The conversation unfolds with a thoughtful exploration of the challenges and joys inherent in discipleship, as articulated by Pastor Matt Walker Thrift. He highlights the duality of discipleship as both a profound commitment to following Christ and a path fraught with difficulties. This dichotomy reflects the reality faced by many believers who seek to navigate their faith amidst personal and communal struggles. Thrift's reflections on Jesus' directive to love one another serve as a poignant reminder of the relational aspect of discipleship, urging listeners to prioritize love as the foundation of their interactions with others. The discussion further critiques the notion of discipleship as a mere checklist of actions or achievements, advocating instead for a more holistic understanding that recognizes the transformative power of love in fostering genuine discipleship. By framing discipleship as a journey rather than a destination, Thrift encourages listeners to embrace the complexities of their faith and to approach their spiritual lives with curiosity and openness. This episode ultimately serves as a clarion call to engage deeply with the essence of Christian love, fostering unity and understanding within the diverse tapestry of the church. Takeaways: Pastor Matt Thrift discusses the profound commandment of love as central to discipleship, reflecting Jesus's values in the context of human frailty. He emphasizes that discipleship is a journey rather than a checklist, inviting individuals to explore their faith organically. Thrift articulates the necessity of community in the discipleship process, suggesting that relationships enhance spiritual growth and understanding. The podcast underscores the importance of engaging with diverse viewpoints within the church to foster unity and understanding amongst believers. Thrift critiques the common misconception that discipleship guarantees an easy life, acknowledging the struggles that accompany genuine faith. He advocates for the practice of spiritual disciplines such as prayer, scripture reading, and fasting as tools for deepening one's relationship with God. . . Check out all of the other shows in the Anazao Podcast Network: https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm . Check out more from TJ on Systematic Geekology: https://player.captivate.fm/collection/642da9db-496a-40f5-b212-7013d1e211e0 . Check out Joshua's Kingdom Hearts substack, The Kingdom Key: https://thekingdomkey.substack.com/ . Get your copy of "Follow:...

    58 min
  7. Crafting Worship: The Significance of Ecumenical Collaboration

    FEB 5

    Crafting Worship: The Significance of Ecumenical Collaboration

    This episode features a profound exploration of the intersection between music, spirituality, and community, as hosted by Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell. Our esteemed guest, Kate Bluett, a poet and lyricist from North Texas, articulates the significance of collaboration in the creative process within the Porter's Gate Collective. The dialogue delves into the theological implications of communal singing, particularly as it relates to the act of submission and the shared experience of worship. Through Kate's insights, we uncover how music serves as a vehicle for expressing faith and fostering unity across diverse Christian traditions. As the conversation unfolds, we are invited to reflect on the physicality of worship and the transformative power of lyrical expression in building community. In a thought-provoking exploration of Ephesians 5, the narrative delves into the essence of communal worship and its implications for church unity. Kate Blewett engages with hosts Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell in a dialogue that bridges the gap between the physicality of singing and the spiritual act of submission to one another. The discussion is anchored in the biblical text, where the Apostle Paul emphasizes wise living and mutual submission as fundamental characteristics of the church community. Kate elucidates how the act of singing together is not merely an expression of faith but a physiological phenomenon that aligns our breaths and hearts, fostering an environment where deeper connections can flourish. She reflects on her own experiences with communal singing, emphasizing its ability to evoke emotions and bind individuals together in a shared spiritual journey. This episode ultimately invites listeners to reconsider the role of music and worship in fostering a sense of belonging and unity within the church, reinforcing the idea that true worship transcends individual expression and embraces collective submission to Christ and each other. Takeaways: The podcast explores the significance of communal activities, such as singing together, as a means of fostering unity and submission within the church community. Kate Bluett discusses her journey from a Catholic upbringing to her current role as a poet and lyricist, emphasizing the evolution of her faith and contributions to church music. The hosts delve into the role of the Porter's Gate Collective in promoting collaborative worship that reflects diverse Christian traditions and artistic expressions. A poignant discussion arises regarding the importance of physicality in worship, particularly through the act of singing, which connects the body and spirit in communal expression. During the episode, the hosts highlight the challenge of creating inclusive worship songs that resonate across different denominational backgrounds and theological perspectives. The conversation underscores the necessity of recognizing and embracing differences within the Christian community to achieve a more profound unity in worship. Companies mentioned in this episode: Porter's Gate Worship Collective Paul Zach Azalea Ministries Some Joyful Noises . Check out all of the other shows in the Anazao Podcast Network: https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm . Check out more from TJ on Systematic Geekology: https://player.captivate.fm/collection/642da9db-496a-40f5-b212-7013d1e211e0 . Check out Joshua's Kingdom Hearts substack, The Kingdom Key: https://thekingdomkey.substack.com/ . Follow Kate...

    1h 3m
  8. Wholeness in Fractures: Jonathan Foster Discusses Love, Grief, and Theopoetics

    JAN 29

    Wholeness in Fractures: Jonathan Foster Discusses Love, Grief, and Theopoetics

    This episode features a profound conversation with Jonathan Foster, author of "Indigo: The Color of Grief," who explores the intersection of grief, love, and theopoetics. Jonathan emphasizes that acknowledging and valuing sadness can foster deeper connections within faith communities, as it allows individuals to be present with one another without rushing to provide answers. He shares his personal journey through grief, particularly following the loss of his daughter, and how it has shaped his understanding of God and love. The discussion also touches on the importance of humility in theological discourse and the transformative power of nature in personal healing. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own journeys and the ways they can foster unity and understanding within their communities. Joshua Noel, TJ (Tiberius Juan) Blackwell, and Jonathan Foster engage in a profound dialogue that weaves together the themes of grief, love, and the theological understanding of presence. Drawing from Psalm 126, they explore how the church can reshape its approach to sadness, recognizing it as a vital aspect of the human experience. Foster articulates the idea that sadness can serve as a grounding force, helping individuals navigate their journeys with greater awareness and intention. The conversation expands into personal territory as Foster recounts the impact of his daughter's death on his faith, revealing the complexities of finding God in absence and loss. Throughout the episode, the hosts challenge listeners to reconsider their relationships with grief and joy. They introduce the concept of lowercase theology, emphasizing a more intimate and humble approach to discussing God that allows for mystery and uncertainty. This approach fosters a space where individuals can express their struggles and questions without fear of judgment. By encouraging open dialogue and vulnerability, they propose that faith communities can cultivate deeper connections among members, ultimately leading to a more inclusive and supportive environment that honors the multifaceted nature of human emotion. Takeaways: The significance of acknowledging both sadness and joy in faith communities can foster deeper connections. Grief is a profound experience that intertwines love and loss, creating a unique journey. Nature offers a healing space for personal reflection and grounding amidst life's chaos. Theopoetics encourages humility and openness in theological discussions, promoting unity over division. Lowercase theology emphasizes the importance of personal experience over rigid doctrinal statements. Engaging with grief can lead to transformative insights about love and human relationships. . Check out all of the other shows in the Anazao Podcast Network: https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm . Check out more from TJ on Systematic Geekology: https://player.captivate.fm/collection/642da9db-496a-40f5-b212-7013d1e211e0 . Check out Joshua's Kingdom Hearts substack, The Kingdom Key: https://thekingdomkey.substack.com/ . Follow all things Jonathan Foster: https://www.jonathanfosteronline.com/ . Get your copy of "Indigo: The Color of Grief" a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CMRT1JY5?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_P2ZARMZGTSEH9WWKY132&bestFormat=true&newOGT=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    1h 8m

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4.8
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About

We aim to see the whole Church, whole again. We will do this by interviewing Church leaders of various backgrounds, cultures, and denominations to see how we can pursue complete unity in Christ. We will also investigate historic arguments in the Church and how the Church has maintained unity in the face of diverse beliefs in the past. . Each episode we will leave our audience with a tangible takeaway that will enable us to take action towards real, practical Church unity. . Rate us & leave a review: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-whole-church-podcast-104837 . Sign up for our newsletter: thewholechurch@gmail.com . Follow us on Social: facebook.com/thewholechurchpodcast Twitter @thewholechurch Instagram @wholechurchpodcast . Make a one-time donation: Cashapp $wholechurch . Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/thewholechurchpodcast . Subscribe to our show: https://the-whole-church-podcast.captivate.fm/listen

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