From Bread Merchandising to Theological Discussions: Ryan Does Joins the Podcast

Day, Porter's Gate Collective: 00:00:36

Farmer, you are working for a table full of bounty. Painter. With each color you are teaching us to see. Nurse. Yours are the healing hands that touch the poor and broken. May God's kingdom come on earth.

His will be done.

TJ Blackwell: 00:01:07

Ephesians 4, 25, 29. In the Christian standard Bible read, therefore, putting away lying, speak the truth, each one to his neighbor.

Because we are members of one another, be angry and do not sin. Don't let the sun go down on your anger and don't give the devil an opportunity. Let the thief no longer steal.

Instead he is to do honest work with his own hands that he has something to share with anyone in need. No foul language should come from your mouth, but only what is good for building up someone in need so that it gives grace to those who hear.

In the book of Ephesians, St. Paul is explaining what it means to be the church.

Before this pericope, Paul wrote that the church is to work together in all of our different roles here. St. Paul insists that the church builds one another up in word, in deeds, and he even ties our occupational work to this idea. Ryan does.

In what ways, if any, do you think the way we present ourselves in work could tie into the idea of building up one another?

Ryan Does: 00:02:10

Be perfectly honest, there aren't a lot of direct things that I think my work specifically does, but I think when we prove it with our work, our integrity, and we show how hard we can work with what we do in the marketplace, I think it does. It does show our care for others. It does show our respect for ourselves and our ability to take care of our.

Our own business and take care of our own family and friends. I do think there are. There are truths and themes you can see by the way someone works.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:45

Yeah, good stuff, good stuff.

Day, Porter's Gate Collective: 00:02:49

Be close to us, Lord. Have merc on us, Lord. Please put your hands on us day by day.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:15

Hey, you guys, welcome to the Whole Church podcast. Doing the Whole Church job fair. I love this series. We're having a lot of fun so far. I hope you guys are too. This is.

This is gonna be an awesome episode with a first time guest on this show, a good friend of TJ and mine, the one, the only, his Holiness, Ryan Doze. How's it going?

Ryan Does: 00:03:44

I'm just saying, if Pope Francis gets taken out of the game, I want to put my name into the, like, magic furnace they choose names out of.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:53

That's exactly how they do it.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:55

The greatest thing about having Ryan on, he's a bread merchandiser company. I don't know how to use words. And for those who don't know, he also invented sliced bread.

So anytime you hear that phrase, the best thing since sliced bread, Ryan invented that.

But the person who invented bread and podcast, the first podcast was actually a podcast about bread hosted by the one and only tj, Tiberius Juan Blackwell. How's it going?

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:18

Great, thank you.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:19

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:20

I would like to say really quick, fun fact. Betty White, before she passed, was older than sliced bread.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:27

Yes. Sliced bread was the greatest thing since Betty White. Yeah. Who was the greatest thing since tj.

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:34

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:36

Guys, you guys know this series. We're talking about people's day jobs and whether or not the stuff that's talked about in our seminaries and churches are actually relevant.

And if they are, how are they relevant? And not only that, we're throwing in a little bit of a bonus in this this episode.

Ryan does is one of my favorite podcasters host the show across the bifrost. It's Thor.

We're not going to talk about Thor's day job today, but he also hosts a podcast called Skipping Church where he talks about conversations he'd rather have than go to church, which, hey, that's kind of what the series is about of like, hey, is what we're talking about church worth it? And Ryan has some. Has a unique perspective on that that I'm excited to get into. It's gonna be a good one.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:18

Yeah, yeah. But before we do that, there are gonna be a few guests in this series.

So you might have already heard that have their own shows on the On Azale podcast network. The website link is below to check those out. And if you are already listening on The Onzel Podcast YouTube channel like and subscribe please.

Pretty please.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:39

Yeah, yeah. Well also while you're doing stuff and if you want to practice, practice what we do on our show here.

You know, ecumenical work, church unity, the greatest sacrament for ecumenicity. That's not a real word that I know of. Is of course silliness.

That's how we start every show is just with an act of silliness where we answer a silly question. TJ and I already answered this one in the show's intro. So this one's pretty much just for Ryan.

Samantha Perez, a friend of ours submitted when we asked for theological topics that we want people to to address in this series. She said is a hot dog a sandwich. And a lot of people voted for her theological concept. So now we have to put you all through the ringer.

Give us a deep thought out answer. Ryan Is a hot dog a sandwich?

Ryan Does: 00:06:33

It's a hot dog. A sandwich. Here's the thing. I. Samantha, is way smarter than I am, and I don't doubt that this question was meant to boggle the human mind.

So while I resist the oncoming madness that this question could drive me to, I'm gonna say I don't think of a hot dog as a sandwich. But I have no reason to say that. It wouldn't be like.

It's like, I'm not gonna die on that hill of hot dog is not a sandwich, because all the basic tenets of a sandwich are met. But it's just like, it's one of those things where you can tell me it's that thing. And I'm like, sure, I see why you came to that conclusion.

But my brain did not come to that conclusion. So for sake of argument, I guess I don't think of a hot dog as a sandwich. But, yeah, there's no reason it can't be Joshua. And what did you guys say?

I'm curious, because I didn't get to hear the answer.

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:33

It is.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:34

I lied. I didn't answer yet. I have to wait till the finale.

DJ Answered already, and then we're doing it vice versa for something later where I answered and he didn't.

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:42

Okay, I'll answer every time.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:43

It is my. My answer. For spoilers, though, my answer probably is gonna be pretty close to Ryan's. I'm gonna have a lot more to do with.

You know, practically doesn't matter. Kind of the. The point of the series here.

Ryan Does: 00:07:56

I wonder if creator of the hot dog or the bratwurst or whatever came. Whatever came first. I wonder if they thought of it as a. As a sandwich over there. Just like, nah, man. I'm just, like, obsessed with making tube meat.

And it was.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:12

It was me. That's what I've been trying to tell you people.

Ryan Does: 00:08:16

Obsessed with tube meat. I think we have our episode title, but.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:20

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. In.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:22

In what ways, if any, do you think this question could be relevant to your life?

Ryan Does: 00:08:27

To my life? I eat a lot of hot dogs. So, yeah, yeah, they're in constant. Oh, well, here's the thing.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:37

If.

Ryan Does: 00:08:37

If I'm. I'm only interested in selling hot dog buns, I don't care what you put in them. Like, you can put whatever in them. I just don't care. As long.

Honestly, tj as long as they sell, you can call whatever the hell you want. That's. I'm very capitalistic in that Way in that essence, I'm just like, get it sold. Get. I like that mission.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:55

You find a way that it was relevant, though. You were like, actually, I sell bread. So the buns.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:01

He sells split sandwich rolls that people can't put their hot dogs.

Ryan Does: 00:09:05

Split sandwich roll.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:08

I hate everything about that part of the conversation. That's all. But, guys, that's. We're not primarily here to talk about hot dogs. We are partially here to talk about hot dogs. I feel like I switched.

This is the hot dog episode. Yeah, I'm a. The reason we're doing the series.

You know, a ton of our listeners are pastors, theologians, people who go to seminary, different church leaders, you know, and we believe our church leaders could benefit from hearing more and learning more from people that are in different occupations. You know, maybe you wouldn't say normal occupations, but, you know, like, what are the people you're talking to actually doing in their daily lives?

Because a lot of times it feels like you're talking about stuff that maybe doesn't translate. And hopefully this series will help translate. Yeah. So that's kind of the goal with what we're doing here.

Before we get into your day job, Ryan, I mentioned it just a little bit ago. You have a podcast called Skipping Church. I recently got the opportunity to guest on and talk about Indiana Jones, which was great.

Ryan Does: 00:10:08

I threw the curviest curve ball at you.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:10

It was fantastic.

Ryan Does: 00:10:12

You were just like, temple of Doom, baby.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:17

Love it. But part of how you describe your show, you say that these are conversations you would rather have than going to church.

That Sunday, you talked to us some about what all you've discussed on your show so far. And why do you find these conversations more beneficial than maybe what's often focused on in our churches?

Ryan Does: 00:10:37

Yeah.

So there was a conversation that my wife, Kim and I had coming back from beer camp a few years ago because there was a family member had said, well, you guys are just trying to get out of church. You're just trying to skip church. And I was like, I was mad about that for a long time.

But then I through this conversation with Kim coming back from beer camp, I kind of redeemed that thing. I was like, maybe, maybe skipping church isn't all bad. And maybe I don't need to feel guilty about it. Maybe I just need to redeem it in my mind.

So I cooked with that idea for a long time. It simmered and I was like, I don't want to be another ex pastor guy just speaking into the void.

His two cents on Things that people have talked about billions of times. So I would just thought was like, okay, what would I rather talk about?

And some days I want to talk about, you know, what I talked about with, with Robert Jones. I want to talk about the roots of white supremacy and white Jesus. Sometimes I want to talk about surfing with our mutual buddy Will Rose.

Sometimes I just, I just want to talk about. A lot of times I just want to talk about sci fi and I want to talk about cosmic horror.

I want to talk about those things that prompt deeper questions in my mind that aren't inherently Christian. They're not inherently theological, they're not inherently any, any certain thing.

They're just the conversation that I would rather have on that morning instead of, I don't know, X, Y and Z. Whatever, whatever. The cool former hip youth pastor that's now the lead pastor wants to talk about to, to get the youth back in the church. Joshua.

So really it wasn't like a middle finger to anybody. It was just like, I'm not actively in a weekly church community, so how would I rather spend that time? And I. Well, we've all been to beer camp.

We all know this feeling that when you, after you leave beer camp, there is this, there is this, this wanting, there's this desire that you have to have that community other at other parts of the year.

So what I've decided to do is just like, I'm just going to engage with the people from beer camp that give me life and make me feel that feeling of community. I'm just gonna do it on my Sunday mornings while I'm skipping church.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:00

So I'm gonna probably frame this in like, hopefully not too triggering of a way. But I'm thinking of like, the people who are regularly in their churches who might be listening to this.

I think there's a chance that they're thinking, okay, but Sunday morning is when you get filled with the spirit and you get that sense of like, community and love and what could be deeper than Christ love? And how could sci fi horror, you know, how could you describe that as deep in comparison to Jesus? Jesus. Jesus. Well, I don't know.

Ryan Does: 00:13:33

They need to check out my upcoming, upcoming series of episodes on sci fi and spirituality, which I'm not like, I'm not trying to be too gimmicky with it, but I do love, I do love a good sci fi pun.

I am calling it a strange truth from Another World, which sci Fi fans will know that is a reference to the original thing from another world that John Carpenter revamped in the 80s. It's one of my absolute. Probably my top five favorite movie of all time. But like that sense of dread and unknown. You can learn a lot if you in.

If you inspect that, the questions are much bigger than the answers. Sorry. Talking about something I love.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:16

No, you're good. I'm just thinking about it. I'm drill down a little bit. So we did Indiana Jones.

So people who are listening to this going, oh, you're the host of the whole church podcast and you skip church. And I skip church like every Sunday. I work on Sundays, guys. But anyway, my thing is, I actually do agree with you.

I still get a lot out of going to church, especially now. I'm more high liturgical and I take the Eucharist. I do get a lot out of that.

But at the same time, I do think I get more out of the conversations like what we did with Indiana Jones than I would necessarily get at the conversation I have at church. Because a lot of times it's just kind of pleasantries or, you know, you're talking about stuff you're supposed to talk about while you're at church.

Yeah.

Could you just trickle down a little bit like, why is it maybe that talking about Indiana Jones we could get something deeper than maybe if we were both at church and just kind of ran into each other?

Ryan Does: 00:15:10

There's a difference between having an actual honest to God conversation over a shared passion or shared experience or shared enjoyment. And what I would call most of. And this is just my experience, people, I'm sure, have a caveat where they have a different experience.

But in my experience, a lot of that conversation you're having in those environments is like, how are the kids? How was the weather this week? How's work going? Those are all fine conversations, but they're pretty safe. And you might think, well, I don't know.

I don't know. Talking about a movie that's 40 years old is exactly radical and risky. Ryan. No, but it's. Joshua and I have a shared passion for that movie.

And we came at it from different points of view.

The only difference between us tearing apart, tearing apart and reconstructing our thoughts on Temple of Doom is no one's gonna call us a heretic if we get it wrong. So, like, in church, you can't. I mean, you got it. You to be. To play nice.

You can't really disagree about a ton or else, you know, you probably leave that church or you go to another place or you find another group. But Joshua and I can be perfectly decent friends. To each other and disagree about Temple of Doom. And it's fine. We move about our life.

I think there's something inherently personal and Joshua said, triggering, triggering about, you know, conversations in spiritual context. It's like, oh, are we going to agree? Are we going to disagree? How honest can I really be about my view on this thing with this person?

There's a kind of like a danger, a risk factor involved.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:46

Yeah. And then I'll take a little bit further and then I'll let TJ get us back on track because that's his job.

But, you know, when we were having that conversation, I had an unscripted, unplanned. There was a moment where I was thinking about, like, what is it about Indiana Jones that I wish I had?

And I tied it into our mutual friend Kristen Tiedman, who's going to be on the this series also. So I'm excited about that and just kind of.

Ryan Does: 00:17:13

We all know it.

Joshua Noel: 00:17:14

Yeah, she's great. But I had like this kind of self reflection of like, I wasn't able to just kind of do in that moment.

And it was this kind of thing where, like, I felt convicted and like, oh, hey, maybe, maybe I need to change.

And usually if I have that kind of thing at church, it's more of like, I need to love God more, I need to pray more, I need it, you know, and I might still have those convictions and things, but yeah, what it translates to in a church context is usually I'm going to pray more or I'm going to, you know, do this more. Whereas that kind of the conversation we had is going to translate more into, no, I actively need to do something different.

And I don't know, like something about that, even though it was. Indiana Jones is a little bit more tangible, I think.

Ryan Does: 00:17:54

Well, yeah, you were. I think. I believe you referred to Indy as a man of action.

And you said sometimes, sometimes situation just requires a man of action or a woman of action. Like a person who is willing to just do rather than think about doing. And I actually, I walked out of that conversation incredibly convicted with.

With how. How we observed that theme of the movie.

Joshua Noel: 00:18:17

Yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:18

Or a platypus of action. True.

Ryan Does: 00:18:25

He's the back on track guy.

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:27

Yeah. So, Ryan, could you break down for our listeners what your experience is with ministry and the ch.

Ryan Does: 00:18:35

Okay, here we go. The truncated version. My dad was a pastor most of my childhood. He was going to Bible college and seminary when I was a small child.

And then once I was in junior high, he became a pastor. And my dad is my hero. I look up to my dad in every area of life now that I'm an adult next to Kim, he's my best friend.

We talk a lot and I have a high value on his opinion. So I looked up to my dad. I wanted to do everything my dad did and he was a pastor, so I wanted to be a pastor.

And I remember once my dad saying to me, because ministry is hard in any context, ministry is hard. There are curve balls that people throw your way that there's no way you know how to hit them.

So my dad was a pastor of small churches all around Iowa. And I remember when I was about 14 or 15, I, you know, like every good youth group kid, I felt a call to ministry.

And my dad actually said, Ryan, if you can do something else and be fulfilled, love it, love yourself and be passionate, go do that thing. And at that point, like, I'll be honest, guys, I wanted to do two things. I wanted to write and I wanted to be a history teacher.

Those are the two things that I wanted to do. But I felt this pressure, this call to ministry, mostly because everybody else in my youth group felt a call to ministry.

So I was like, well, I don't want to be left out. And, and, and my third option was be the quarterback of the packers. So that like that wasn't going to happen. Yeah, I was. Alignment.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:20

I still think it might know.

Ryan Does: 00:20:21

I didn't know. Yeah, no, the packers are doing just fine without me.

But then in high school, all those, I mean I, this sounds arrogant, but what the hell, I was a pretty good communicator for my age. So I actually, I did win some awards for communicating for storytelling on a state level in Iowa. Big whoop.

But earned, earned a little bit of scholarship money and decided I was going to be a pastor because I'll be honest, I very, very selfishly, I wanted to write books, I wanted to speak to thousands of people and I wanted to, I was looking up to people like Matt Chandler and Mark Driscoll and John Piper and holy cow, I can't believe like 34 year old me wants to go back and kick 16 year old Ryan in the nuts so hard. But that's what I wanted. So I went to Bible college.

I did the thing, actually ended up dropping out of Bible college because I had a complete breakdown and went back because I did not, I did not view that as a sign of like, oh, you should do something else. It was like, no, no, I just got to try harder. I just got to try harder.

So I approached burnout as a 21 year old and then I actually went into, I went into the workforce like after having not had a job.

So many people at Bible college didn't have actual real life jobs like oh, I worked part time at Chick Fil A or oh, I worked part time at the bank or like and nothing's wrong with that.

But for someone who doesn't, hasn't really worked in the real world to then just jump into a ministry context where you're advising people on spiritual matters and their lives having never actually worked a 40 hour like job with your hands or like, and I'm not saying pastors don't do work that the will Rose would kill me if that's what, that's what I actually meant. That's not what I mean.

But you go from being, you know, being a kid to being a youth pastor to being a main pastor and it's like did you ever have to like shovel shit for 40 hours a week? Metaphorically or literally?

I guess so I worked for about two and a half years in the real world and then went back to Bible college and that's where I met my wife and we thought we were on the track. I had done an internship at a church that I absolutely love in Cheyenne, Wyoming.

But that, that even ended, that ended because I was working a 40 hour work week at a Sam's Club on top of my internship hours and my daughter Lily was on the way and I was, I was failing every class. It was not good. My, my internship supervisor brought me into his office one day and he's like, hey, I like what's going on here?

I was like, well if one ball has to be dropped, I'm dropping the internship. I'm not going to drop my job. I'm not going to drop my wife, I'm not going to drop my newborn kid.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:25

Yeah.

Ryan Does: 00:23:26

So that's timeout number two. So I go back into the workforce again and then honestly I thought I was done.

Like I just, you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't take that as a sign to re tap into the things I actually loved, things I actually cared about. But then this position opened up at Kim's home church to be the high school youth director.

And so I applied and I got the job, which is crazy because I was so under qualified. But you know, I'm a good communicator, I'm a decent salesman. I sold myself into the job.

So do that job for I believe year and a half, two years at A budding kind of. I use the term wannabe megachurch because it was like, functioned like a megachurch, but didn't have the numbers to be a megachurch.

And that was in suburban Omaha. I love Omaha. Like, I love being from Nebraska. Now my wife finds it funny that I'm finally like, oh, I'm a Nebraska. And she's like, you're a what?

Former Iowan. But maybe that joke just lands more in our Iowa, Nebraska households. So I have converted in one way. But, yeah, did that job for a while.

Met a lot of really great people. But I learned what kind of the dog eat dog world of, like, budding mega churches was like. And for a while, I was like, oh, I want to be like a.

Like an Andy Stanley. I want to be like a speaker that gets paid to go from place to place to place to just, you know, just. I want to be that guy.

And then I realized I had too big of a heart. Not this is not a humble brag, but, like, I had too big of a heart to do the dog eat dog thing.

And there were a few situations along the way that kind of broke me. But then I just realized I was like, no, this is not for me. My.

I quit that job because I felt like it was either I quit this job or my soul slowly dies. So a lot of people from the outside looked at that move as like, oh, he's quitting the church because he's lost faith in the Lord.

It's like, actually, Jesus had nothing to do with this. Me quitting the church had zero to do with Jesus. I. It's crazy. A lot of people, Josh, a lot of people don't buy that answer.

And, like, I'm sure you guys have run into many people that. That you know, through, like, beer, camp and similar spaces. But, yeah, no, I.

Me quitting had nothing to do with Jesus had everything to do with his people.

Joshua Noel: 00:25:49

Yeah. Yeah, man. Which it's funny because that's something, like, I resonate with.

I feel that I know you talk about, like, me, you, Josh Patterson, Nick Polk. Now all of us have been on.

Ryan Does: 00:26:00

The whole, Jack Patterson sounds way cooler than Josh.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:05

Listen, when Josh Patterson leans too far into Caputo, he just becomes Jack Patterson.

Ryan Does: 00:26:09

Josh Patterson sounds like a nerd.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:12

Jack is a secret older brother.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:14

No, but, you know, you refer to us like 5 or 6 is like, the world's worst youth group. It was like, the pastor. Yeah, the youth pastor.

I love that because, like, that's for me, when I think of, like, my faith community, I love the church I go to. I love being a member of Will's church.

But when I think of my faith community, I think of like, you guys, you know, then some people from systematic ecology, Brandon Knight, they're like, that's my faith community. And that's not like a. It's like a discombobulated random group of people here and there and mostly all online.

Ryan Does: 00:26:44

We are the island of misfit toys.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:46

Yes.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:48

Huge island.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:49

Yeah, No, I love it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:50

Crazy big island, Grace.

Ryan Does: 00:26:52

So big. Almost too big. Like, does this island get bigger? Of course it does.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:57

Also, random disclaimer. Really random, probably for. For people who aren't aware of it. We have had Matt Chandler on the show before.

Ryan Does: 00:27:05

Really?

Joshua Noel: 00:27:06

It was not that long before the tech scandal happened.

Ryan Does: 00:27:11

Oh, interesting.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:12

Yeah, it was just interesting timing. You know, I believe very differently from them then and my beliefs have further gone further from him. Yeah, that's how that sentence works. Since.

Since. But yeah, just so people who are listening are like, wait a minute.

Matt Chandler, he's been on the People who just for some reason remember that long ago. Yes, he has been on before that. Accurate statement.

Ryan Does: 00:27:34

Okie dokie.

TJ Blackwell: 00:27:36

So this is the whole church job fair. So before we get into it, if someone had never heard of your job, how would you describe it?

And how would you address anyone who might be interested in pursuing your career?

Ryan Does: 00:27:50

So I read that in the notes. T.J. interested in pursuing. I do not have a job that people pursue. I have a job that people probably end up in.

But I don't want that to sound discouraging.

Joshua Noel: 00:28:02

I'm about to pursue it.

Ryan Does: 00:28:04

After this talk, we'll just, we'll just swap jobs. Joshua. As long as I get the yard with the fence and the dog. So I have an unfenced yard.

So fences, like, I'm 34 years old and fences sound fantastic to me now.

Joshua Noel: 00:28:21

That's what happens in your 30s. You're like a fence.

Ryan Does: 00:28:24

Yeah. In your 20s you get excited about like, oh, this new movie's coming out, this new show's coming out. I was like, do you know Joshua has a fence now?

He has a fenced in yard. So sorry, tj to answer your actual question, I would say, well, first of all, what I do is I am a bread. Say, I'm a bread sales merchandiser.

I am a regional salesman for a regional bread company. So my.

The base of our company is based in the Twin Cities and I am in charge of a route in northeast Nebraska that services about a 200 square mile area, mainly three larger towns. That is all very uninteresting. And I'm sure at least one listener fell asleep while I was saying that. So to get you back, here's.

This job is not one that maybe people pursue, but it's one that people probably end up in. The great thing about my job is there's a lot of autonomy for those that do their job with integrity, which I. I do my job with integrity.

I'm not someone who needs to be babysat, so my boss trusts me. I've developed a really awesome relationship with my boss, and I'm kind of just allowed to do my own thing, which is great.

When one of your main hobbies is podcasting and listening to podcasts and, like, listening to audiobooks all day long, that's pretty much what I do. I. I get paid, yes. To deliver bread and take care of accounts and make sure my clients are satisfied.

But really, I just listen to podcasts all day, which is a pretty awesome way to spend your day, because you get to listen to your friends and you get to just, I don't know, be immersed in other worlds for a long time during the day, which is a good. I consider it a good day.

Joshua Noel: 00:30:19

Have you listened to Batman Resurrection yet? It's great.

Ryan Does: 00:30:24

Okay.

TJ Blackwell: 00:30:25

Yeah, I said I can't stand podcasts. Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:30:34

He doesn't actually listen to any of them.

Ryan Does: 00:30:37

He just speaks into the ether and maybe a voice shouts back eventually.

TJ Blackwell: 00:30:42

Yeah, usually, actually. So what are some things that are normal in your line of work that others might not often think about? How heated does.

Does bread distribution get for you?

Ryan Does: 00:30:56

I'll be honest. Not very. A lot of it is. A lot of it truly is.

And I'm sure any, like, sales rep or vendor job would say this, that a lot of it is how good of a people person you are. You really small skills. Soft skills are way better in this position than, like, well, I can. I can lift this, and I can, you know.

Oh, I can make sure that, you know, all the physical parts of the job are covered. Yeah, that's great. It's good that you can do that. You should be able to physically do it. It is a physical job.

But I would say the soft skills and people skills, being good at conflict resolution are the things that really matter in this job. And because you're talking about money, like, stores do not want to. They don't want to be disconnected from their money.

If something threatens the money, then your client feels threatened. So that's one thing that is important to keep in mind, especially with my job, because you are Dealing with sales and accounts.

I will say a shout out to someone that made my job incredibly easier once I started listening to him is my friend Jason Luck. He is a vendor for a pizza company, does frozen pizzas. And he was kind of my big brother, my guru throughout the whole process of learning my job.

And that was something he would preach to me all the time, is, you know, people skills, people skills, people skills. Everything else in this job can be taught.

You can't really, like, you can show someone how to be better at people skills, but if they don't have it, they don't enjoy working with people and making conversation. Like, yeah, it's, it's hard. It's really difficult.

There's several vendors that work at the same stores as me that just don't like talking to people and they don't have as much room on the, on the displays. They don't have as much, you know, numbers coming in. It's because they're not willing to go that extra mile of making connections with people.

So that's one thing that I would say is like, you have, you have to be good at that. If you're not, like, I don't know, you're probably going to hate it, you know.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:01

And the jobs I've worked, especially in, like, food, you know, there's certain, like, lingo that's like, probably weird to use outside of the job place where you're like, sharp. When you're going around the corner, you're holding like a knife or something or like hot pot.

You just hear people shout stuff like that all the time. Joshua actually referred to front of house, back a house.

Ryan Does: 00:33:17

That's Joshua's nickname at the restaurant is hot pot.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:20

Yeah, well, usually someone just yells sharp. I just say thanks. But the.

Or like when I was in photo, though, like, you talk a lot about, like, you know, exposure or someone would say image validation at least once every other sentence for some reason.

Ryan, is there anything that's like, language wise that's like, specific to what you do that's like, I don't know, like, what's the lingo that we might not be aware of?

Ryan Does: 00:33:45

A lot of it is just like, I don't know if there's a special language per se. A lot of the computer stuff we do for ordering has abbreviations that.

Honestly, I work by myself a lot, so recently I had to train someone how to do the job.

I hadn't trained somebody in over a year, and it was insane to me how much I don't actually, like, think about what I'm doing through the day, because I've been at it for three years now, and I mostly work by myself. So when I, like when I get there in the morning, I pop in my earbuds and I go, like, I just, you know, I just, I rock and roll.

And having to explain terminology. This is a good question because I had to explain terminology to a new hire, and they were like, what does that mean?

And I was like, oh, that's just the way that we say the other thing, you know, referring to certain products. Not by the. You know, you guys go to the grocery store and you're like, oh, that is a loaf of white bread.

TJ Blackwell: 00:34:44

This guy's over here talking about the SKU.

Ryan Does: 00:34:47

But to me, it's a: 4289

Like, I find more value in using the number because it's the thing I input and the amount that I input for different products. It's funny when people come up to me and say, hi, I'm looking for this thing. I was like, oh, you're looking for a 115.

And I'm like, why would you say that to her? She has no idea what that means.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:11

I love that.

Ryan Does: 00:35:12

Pretend you're not talking to a robot for a second.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:15

Gosh. Yeah, I. I worked in grocery stores for a really long time. I was actually brag about it. Bread merchandiser.

as on. I'm like, just type in: 4011

Ryan Does: 00:35:36

With someone that knows what they're doing.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:37

And I'm at self checkout. Like, what are you doing?

Ryan Does: 00:35:41

I. I do find it funny when people are like, self checkouts are gonna. Are gonna get rid of all cashiers. Like, have you met cashiers?

Like, I'll take the robot, please.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:53

Anyway, so for the meat of these.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:56

Episodes, now that we're 30ish minutes in.

Ryan Does: 00:35:59

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:00

We want to talk through the 12 big theological topics that are often debated by theologians, podcasters, pastors, to see how the ideas actually impact people's everyday lives. So we're going to go through 12 topics our Facebook group voted on as the biggest theological hot topics of our time.

And we need you to tell us if you find the topic somewhat relevant, not relevant, or really relevant. Or if you've never heard of it, and then we're going to pick a couple and discuss them further. But are you ready?

Ryan Does: 00:36:30

Just one quick clarification, tj this is not my personal interest in the topic. This is like relevance to the job.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:38

Relevance to the job.

Ryan Does: 00:36:39

Okay.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:39

Okay, we're gonna go. Soteriology.

Ryan Does: 00:36:43

Oh, gosh. Not really relevant. Like, sorry, yeah, that's just.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:52

That's real. Freewheel versus predestination.

Ryan Does: 00:36:55

I'm gonna say somewhat relevant only because I have a weird, twisted thought about it. Maybe for later.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:02

All right, so what about atonement models?

Ryan Does: 00:37:06

Honestly, same as soteriology. Kind of think those two walk hand in hand somewhat. So not. Not really relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:12

Right. And continuationism versus cessationism of the gifts of the spirit.

Ryan Does: 00:37:18

I'm going to go ahead and say somewhat relevant because some of those gifts can bleed over into real life.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:27

Right, Christologists.

Ryan Does: 00:37:30

I'm gonna say somewhat relevant. Actually, you know what? I'm gonna say really relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:35

All right. What about God's nature?

Ryan Does: 00:37:38

God's nature? Only because I think that's kind of loaded. I'm gonna say somewhat. Somewhat relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:46

Social justice.

Ryan Does: 00:37:48

Really relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:49

The doctrine of imago dei.

Ryan Does: 00:37:52

Is there a different way to say really super duper, ultra important, call that really relevant?

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:59

Yes. The nature of Scripture?

Ryan Does: 00:38:03

Only if it. I mean, only if it really informs the other things. So say somewhat.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:09

All right. And ecclesiology and missiology. Oh.

Ryan Does: 00:38:16

I'll say somewhat relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:18

Okay. Demonology and angelology.

Ryan Does: 00:38:21

Not as relevant as I would effing like it.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:25

Not really relevant.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:27

Yeah, no, we got demons in the walking for sure.

Ryan Does: 00:38:30

You got demons in the walking hell?

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:31

Yes.

Ryan Does: 00:38:32

Hell froze over the demons here to play, so.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:36

And eschatology.

Ryan Does: 00:38:37

Oh, God, put it this way, it's relevant, but I. It's relevant only because I. I work in small rural communities, so, like every election cycle, it's the end times. Yeah.

So I would say relevant, but I wouldn't say like, important. Like, it's talked about more than you would think.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:58

Yeah, it's like the thrust. There's an astro mark beside it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:01

Yeah. For us, it's every time it snows, that's the end times.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:07

Oh, man. Good stuff. Well, Ryan, you've heard the list. You've ranked the list.

If you had to pick, I'm going to ask you to those above theological topics that you think are particularly relevant, are relevant to your day to day, that you might want to unpack a little bit more, what would it be?

Ryan Does: 00:39:28

Okay, so the two that jump to mind quickest not that the others aren't good choices, but I would say the doctrine of the imago DEI and social justice. And it's not because I'm just some lefty crazy whatever guy. I believe that truthfully, like, the doctrine of the imago DEI is how we view others.

Through what lens we view others, and social justice is how we're willing to treat others. So I would say those two Joshua.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:05

Yeah, I mean, you pretty much interact with someone else made in the image of God every day, if you believe in the imago day. So I feel like that does make sense. You did like a super extra duper with the imago day one. I feel like. Sit on that for a little bit.

What does imago day when you hear that now, given all your experience and all of the, you know, because imago is really like, it's church lingo, but I feel like it's not something that many church people grasp. It's just something that's like a catchphrase almost, maybe.

Ryan Does: 00:40:36

Yeah, I like, that's. That's one.

That's one doctrinal idea that never like, I never really sat with it as long as I should have when I was actually in Bible college and actually training to spiritually care for people. But now that I'm 34 and I have two kids and I'm raising humans, there is a part of it where you see someone at their best and their worst.

You see them at their honestly, their saddest, their maddest, their happiest.

And when you view them through a selfish lens and you view them through an unglorified, unredeemed lens, it's like, it's really easy to think the worst about them, to really short sell what people are honestly capable of. And if I extrapolate that out to work, if I don't view people through the image and likeness of God, things get really dark and gloomy real fast.

A lot of hopelessness sets in, a lot of judgment, a lot of doubt, a lot of skepticism.

But if I have this thought in my mind, like, hey, maybe I don't know, understand what the image of God is and what his likeness truly looks like in a person.

But if I acted as though it were true, a little bit of what my buddy Josh Patterson calls theopoetics, if I act as if it is true, then I will treat that person better because I have elevated who they are, what they are, what they're capable of in my mind, looking at them through the image and likeness of God.

TJ Blackwell: 00:42:19

Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:42:20

So is there Jack Patterson, by the way. But it's fine, right?

TJ Blackwell: 00:42:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So is there any one of these topics that you think is particularly irrelevant, Particularly ill?

Ryan Does: 00:42:34

Let me look at my list again.

TJ Blackwell: 00:42:37

There's no demonology or angelology.

Joshua Noel: 00:42:38

I see.

Ryan Does: 00:42:39

Here's the thing.

That's my, that would be my, like, I'd be like, it is an injustice that we are not talking about demons as much as like, and we're not talking like if like Christians out there. Like, we don't even talk about like angels and demons in the cool way. Like angels are truly effed up creatures in Scripture.

Like, why don't we talk like going back to something I really love. Like, angels in the Bible should be a subject of cosmic horror all the time. Like, they're terrifying.

People are never like, hey, sweet, an angel showed up. They're like, oh my gosh, what is this?

Anyway, so tj, I want to say angiology and demonology, but I actually, I think I want to say the nature of scripture or eschatology. Because there are two things that largely lay level people love to talk about but often don't have authority to really.

They just kind of talk out their butt about it, you know, talking about how important the Bible is. But it's like, yeah, but like the Bible has some really effed up sections. Like, you know, it's not just all proverbs and good feely words.

There's xenophobia in there, there's sexism, there's racism, there's violence. Truly the Bible is like a pick and choose your own adventure thing. So is it relevant, tj? Probably to some people.

But I think largely the way we treat it, the way people who are at that lay level treat it is an irrelevant way to treat Scripture. And I mean end times, it's like God, like, give me a break. Yeah, come on.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:22

Yeah, I, you mentioned like it like in your, the speed round of it kind of version of how like people in the rural area just kind of talk too much about it. And like it is interesting. My out myself is part of the problem here.

As someone with a degree in Bible who's working on a master's degree in more Bible. And I don't know how you learn more Bible, Bible and more Bible. You know, I'll take Bible with a.

Ryan Does: 00:44:48

Side of Bible, please.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:49

Bible and the Apocrypha.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:51

So interesting. Like I get stuff like, hey, Josh, doesn't Revelation say that the Antichrist is coming from Russia?

And I'm like, yeah, because like, I don't know how to Address it, because I don't want to come off as irrelevant, irreverent, you know, and be like, hey, that's a dumb question. But I'm like, no, the Bible actually never mentions Russia, you know, but, like.

Ryan Does: 00:45:12

I'm like, well, also never mentions the United States either.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:16

Thing of Revelation, it's not meant to be this literal thing. You guys are looking for a code where there is no code.

And I'm like, but that, at the same time, addressing it that way is really, like, not honoring of the image of God and the other person. And I'm like, I don't.

I don't even know how to address this because, like, I don't want to say you're stupid, but also, there's so much to unpack with the fact that you felt the need to ask that question.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:38

You know, it's like someone way funnier to say yes.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:43

Yeah, it's in there.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:46

Oh, yeah, you didn't read it? Yeah, it says that.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:50

Kind of not honoring the other person. Right? That's me thinking that they're too dumb to engage in this conversation. That's how I would interpret that.

So, like, I don't want to do that either.

Ryan Does: 00:45:57

Joshua, let me give you a get out of guilt free card here.

Joshua Noel: 00:46:02

I love this.

Ryan Does: 00:46:03

So I often look at Revelation like someone being locked in an escape room, looking for clues around the room, but never really realizing that there were no doors. So they just, like, work themselves up into a lather, and then they're like, oh, man, this is clearly the answer.

And they end up just busting through the wall. They end up making up their own door. It's like, yeah, but the clues led me to this. Like, I think you just kind of went crazy, man.

Revelation is something like. Honestly, Josh Patterson's podcast. We did the TW20ish questions once, and I. I said, you know, get rid of.

Like, there's a question was like, if you could get rid of one book of the Bible. And I was like, revelation seems like a good one.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:47

Esther.

Ryan Does: 00:46:49

No, the one that doesn't mention God. Why? That's a good one. And then I said Revelation just. Or I said Genesis just for fun.

Because how funny would it be if you took the first chapter out of a book? Yeah, no, sorry, Joshua. That was. I got to be a better guest here.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:06

No, no, that's funny, though.

I do want to say how I did answer it, so you guys can, like, tell me if I'm terrible, and then we can move on to this actual podcast that we're doing. I tried to.

Basically I said it's a different kind of literature when it talks about the Antichrist, is talking about a type of leader and a type of person and it describes people like, and I listed some of the characteristics. So if you look today, you would list people like Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, they are the Antichrist. And I stand by that.

Like, I think that's what the Bible says and I think it's right. Like that's the Antichrist.

Ryan Does: 00:47:37

If you're looking for him in another one of the epistles. Doesn't either John or James say that many Antichrists have actually entered the world? So it's like, yeah, multiple.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:47

There's not multiple.

Ryan Does: 00:47:48

Sorry, I'm a little rusty on my Bible, Mr. Master's degree.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:51

No, but that's just it. Sometimes it's so funny, we get all these degrees and stuff, but in reality it's just a matter of, hey, it's not that kind of literature.

And what people think you do in seminary is learn all of the details and what the stuff secretly means. And in reality you end up doing a lot of like deconstruction and going, yeah, this is actually literature. You need to learn what literature is.

And each of these books are a different kind of book and just read it as a book.

And sometimes it's just you overthink things and then you turn into like this crazy stuff when really the Bible's just trying to warn you to not support people like Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. You know, like, it's like sometimes it's just really simple stuff.

Ryan Does: 00:48:28

Joshua Knowles cooking.

Joshua Noel: 00:48:30

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:48:30

So what would you rather the church and are like pastors and theologians be focusing on? And how would you find out if you're skipping it every week?

Joshua Noel: 00:48:43

I'd let them know.

Ryan Does: 00:48:47

How would you know?

Honestly, I'm not going to say that I think every single answer to every single problem is, is spelled out in a anthology volume from a few thousand years ago. But I will say that if people lived their life more like Jesus, I do think that would solve a lot of problems.

And I'm not just talking about the, I'm not talking about the things that are very easy to talk about theologically, but like the actual, the empathy of Jesus, the care of Jesus, how he interacts with others, how he builds community, how he builds peaceful resistance to world changing empires. Like that is the stuff that our world actually needs. I'm sorry, Pastor Chad, we don't need another series about having Christian marriages.

Like people get divorced. It happens. People are shitty. Like, that's just a fact. I don't have a verse for that. But yeah, look it up in First Whatever. People are shitty.

I think, yeah, the actually embodying the character and the value of values of Jesus. Like if Jesus were just some crazy religious teacher, his movement should have died out million or millions thousands of years ago.

So there must be something about this alternative way of life that Jesus exemplified that is beneficial to the world. Just nonviolence alone, just peaceful resistance alone should be something to chew on for a long time.

But like honestly, we'd rather spiritualize that and protect other things and maybe not get our feathers as ruffled. See, sometimes, like sometimes I think as a former preacher I went too far in the weeds on things that weren't actually relevant to people's lives.

And this because it's easier, it's easier to talk about things that aren't relevant because then you don't have to fact check it with people's lives.

But if you actually went further in the concepts of peace, of empathy, of kindness, of service, of humility, then you should be having some really uncomfortable conversations with yourself and your congregation. So that is what I think I would rather see.

And just so people know, skipping church is kind of my thing, I guess, but I am loosely connected to a community here nearby. It's a small Mennonite church where the pastor is absolutely just phenomenal. He is a.

He is a rather, I would say kind of an old school progressive voice.

He kind of preaches like an ex hippie, which I, which I love because it's the middle of Nebraska and it's a bunch of farmers that are like, amen pastor. It's like, it's like this guy was wearing flip flops and surfing like 50 years ago. But, but I love it. He outspokenly talks about nonviolence.

He talks about how we're to treat other people, the immigrants, our queer friends. He openly talks about all those things. And he's talking to a congregation of 70 year old farmers and he himself is not a spring chicken.

So it's like I love that, but I love that community because they are focused on peace and empathy and service. What I would consider to be very Christlike characteristics.

And all you have to do in rural Nebraska is walk down the street a few blocks to find a church that patriotically claims the name of Jesus but does not love the idea of peace or empathy or welcoming the stranger.

Joshua Noel: 00:52:44

Yeah, yeah, don't want to talk about the sin of empathy too much. That is a joke for those listening.

TJ Blackwell: 00:52:51

Come on.

Ryan Does: 00:52:53

Josh was all for the empathy. Also, Sorry, I still have a little bit of that preacher dog in me.

Joshua Noel: 00:52:57

No, no, it's good stuff, man. I love it.

And I love, because you kind of mentioned like some of this earlier, you were talking about how like a lot of people who go to Bible college haven't really worked full time jobs like that. And one of the questions we've been doing for the series, like, each of us sees the world through different eyes, right?

Like, I'm not going to see the same world that you do, living in two different states, doing two completely different jobs, interacting with different kinds of people, all that kind of stuff.

So do you think there's anything in your line of work that you see that maybe a lot of our pastors, church leaders, people who are attending seminary, maybe they don't see that they could benefit from learning from your perspective, what's something that you see that they could learn from occupationally?

Ryan Does: 00:53:40

I think conflict resolution is one having more.

Like, I think sometimes when I was doing pastoral work, I felt like I could not be wholly honest with people because, you know, if I get frustrated with somebody, then I'm not being humble. Like there would be that standard of like, well, Ryan can't get upset, he can't be disappointed in other people because he's a pastor.

Well, newsflash, we all feel those things. Even at my work now.

The two younger guys that I work alongside that run the other routes out of our depot, they found out that I was a pastor last week. They've been working with me for a month now. They found out I used to be a pastor last week.

Well, that morning was really awkward because their entire demeanor changed. I was like, guys, I was a pastor like five years ago. Like, what is this weird change? Like, well, like you're like a, you're like a pastor guy.

I was like five years ago, guys, I'm also a real human being. So I think sometimes there's this like, air that like, pastors aren't actually real people and they don't actually have real frustrations.

They don't actually, you know, go out and have a beer. They don't actually swear. They don't actually like things that aren't, you know, Bible study and more Bible study, please.

Best example of this, Will Rose. Will Rose is the best pastor I've ever known because, like, you guys know this about him.

But for the first year that Will and I were friends, I did not ask him one thing related to his job. I didn't care that he was a pastor. Will Rose, one of the coolest men I know.

Like, when I have a crisis or when I just need to, like, shoot the breeze on the way home, I call Will because he's just a fantastic person who's wise and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've asked him to, quote, be my pastor in the last three years. But he is one of the realest people I've ever met. And. And pastors.

Pastors and clergymen and lay leaders that are even in those, like, positions of power, positions of influence. I'll say if you followed the Will Rose handbook, you would do better in what you're doing not to put Will on a pedestal.

I just love him that much and he's meant that much in my life.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:00

Yeah. Well, while we're putting Will on a pedestal, I'll use them as an example too.

TJ Blackwell: 00:56:05

He belongs there.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:06

Yeah. Well, so. So Will. Will exemplifies what the series is about, I think.

Ryan Does: 00:56:12

Good. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:13

Because of what, what you're saying. And even. Cause like, there's like, script, almost like scripts that pastors are given.

Like, here's what people are like, and here is how you respond to people. And because of the script, it really, really negatively impacted, like, my self esteem, my arrogance, all that kind of stuff.

Because, like, I both thought too much myself and too little myself at the same time.

Ryan Does: 00:56:36

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:37

Which makes no sense because what it was is I'm like, I'm taught this whole thing that all of us are worthless worms. So I constantly be trying to do better. And then like, I would go, just full transparency. I wanted to marriage counseling.

And the pastor that did that is asking questions, going, like, what do you do when you get angry? And I'm like, I don't really get angry. Well, what do you do when this happens? I'm like, I don't do that. I don't. I don't feel that way.

I don't do those feelings. I don't do these things. And I'm like, it made me feel like, like, oh, man, I must be great.

But then at the same time, it's like, actually, no, because the reason I don't do those things is because I have this guilt that I'm not supposed be human. Then here comes Will Rose and like, Will will harp on me because he's like, josh, why did you return the $50 you found in the parking lot?

That is crazy.

Ryan Does: 00:57:19

I don't agree with human world, but.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:23

Like, that's just it. Like, like all the pastors are pastoring me to be Perfect. Because we're all worthless worms. And then here comes Will. That goes.

Josh, you need to be a human.

Ryan Does: 00:57:32

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:33

Because being a human is a good thing. And here's how you do that. It's almost like he's like retreating me to. Can that shed all of the programs that were put into me so I can. I don't know.

Ryan Does: 00:57:43

So I need Master the world's worst youth group.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:45

That's true.

Ryan Does: 00:57:46

But anyway, that. That would be my. That'd be my answer. Joshua is more. More Will Roses in the world.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:52

Yeah, I agree.

TJ Blackwell: 00:57:54

So are there questions that you think we missed that our audience might want to know about you or. Oh, your job?

Ryan Does: 00:58:02

Oh, goodness, tj, I hope there's a lot of job.

TJ Blackwell: 00:58:04

There's a lot of great things to know about Ryan.

Ryan Does: 00:58:06

I honestly, these guys would know a lot of them. If you have any questions about me, I mean, I, I do shape your beard. No, no, he has a stencil.

TJ Blackwell: 00:58:17

I've seen it. Kim showed it to me.

Ryan Does: 00:58:20

I did. For Christmas, Kim got me a straight razor. And I am so afraid of using it because I don't want to Sweeney Todd myself.

TJ Blackwell: 00:58:31

That's what I use.

Ryan Does: 00:58:32

Here's what I'll say. You know, I'm a. I'm a 34 year old unmedicated nerd. So, yeah, I like all the. I like all the stuff. I will say this. Like, you know, I.

One thing about me is I learned too late the things that I wish I would have learned earlier. You know, not being a doormat, not having passions outside of the church, not liking things based on how it would be perceived. I think I was afraid.

Afraid for a long time. And I would go back and tell myself, I don't want to be afraid anymore. I don't want to be bullied into these things.

So that's something you can know about me is I live with that thought of, like, I wish I didn't, you know, have to go. I wish I didn't have to unpack this so much. But it also leads to conversations like this.

It leads to friendships like this where I have common denominators with people. So, yeah, I mean, if people really want to know something about me, I am a wide ass open book. So. But it's true. Like, you know, just ask me.

It's the best way to find out.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:37

Watch the Star wars franchise. Imagine Harrison Ford made no mistakes. That's Ryan Dos.

Ryan Does: 00:59:43

Not even close. Not even close.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:47

He flies a spaceship. Just as well. I promise.

Ryan Does: 00:59:49

I appreciate the sentiment, but I reject its validity.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:54

So, your holiness, you might know one thing we usually do before wrapping up. We usually, like I ask our guests if they had provide a single change of action that would help better engender church unity, what it would be.

For this series, we're a little more specific. What could anyone in the church, lady minstrel, whatever.

What could anybody do that would just help someone that works in your occupation, in their daily life? If someone in the church right now is just know someone who is a merchandiser and they just want to be helpful to their life, what can they do?

Ryan Does: 01:00:29

Okay, when you have a conversation with somebody next out in the real world, ask the question and care about the answer. Like, I know that sounds really simple, but like, take, take the pastor hat off. Just take it off. Leave it at the office.

Like when you ask someone how is your day going? And they say, you know, it's fine. Like, okay, like, go further. Like, if they actually open up to you, don't be a pastor robot. Don't do what I did.

Don't. Don't just ask the series of, you know, choose your own adventure questions, empathize, be there with.

Be there on behalf of, like, if you are Jesus in that situation, things gonna get messy. And I know you know that, like, speaking pastor, I know you know that, like, I know ministry is dirty and you probably know it better than I do.

Like, do not reject the dirtiness of it. Do not reject the messiness of it. The chaos, the hitting the fan. That's where people need you most. And I go back to my.

My example, Will Rose, is that for me, I don't want a pastor in my life. But if I did, it would be Will Rose. Because when things go wrong, he here, I call him.

I'm like, I just, like, I don't need you to answer the question. I don't need you to figure it out for me. I just need you to be there with me. Be there alongside me. And of course, because he's my friend. He is.

And I have other friends.

You know, like, Joshua and I have had this conversation in recent months, you know, talking about, you know, this Joshua, the night we were coming back from beer camp and your life literally like flashed before your family's life flashed before your eyes. TJ's figuring stuff out. That is the moment you actually need community that is worth a damn.

Joshua Noel: 01:02:14

Yeah.

Ryan Does: 01:02:15

Platitudes don't get you through the fear that something has happened to your wife.

Platitudes and Bible verses don't get you through moments when you feel like your Whole world is caving in, and you just want someone to prop up the wreckage. Don't be full of shit. Don't spew bs. Be real, and don't reject the message. That is what I would say.

TJ Blackwell: 01:02:38

So what changes in the world around us if everyone, like, becomes, well, starts caring? Really caring.

Ryan Does: 01:02:47

To quote the great theologian Samwise Gamgee, I cannot carry it for you, but I can carry you. That is. That is all ministry has to be. It's all community has to be. That's all. We overcomplicate it with all this bs and it only has to be that.

Carrying one another as we walk through life. Oh, it has to be.

Joshua Noel: 01:03:07

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:03:07

Yeah, that's. I was really afraid you were going to say Thomas Aquinas.

Joshua Noel: 01:03:12

No, but.

TJ Blackwell: 01:03:13

So I'm really glad Sam was there.

Joshua Noel: 01:03:16

Yeah, no, TA hasn't been on my.

Ryan Does: 01:03:18

Reading list in a long time.

Joshua Noel: 01:03:20

That's funny, but good. But no. I mean, you mentioned everything. In, like, October, I get that phone call, right? And it's like that. That's it.

Like, I had so many people, and, you know, we talked about the world's worst youth group and our little theology. Be a cramp group. But it's like, that faith community. And I think that's what the church can be.

That's why we still do this, because, like, I know what the church can be when. If the whole church is whole again, to use a little catchphrase or whatever, it's a group of people who can carry you. Right? Like.

Like, I'm going through the airport, and I don't know how I got to my terminal, but I'm there because I had a friend that was alongside me, you know, well, I'm calling a million different people, and, you know, Trip's calling me, like, hey, what do you guys need? And she's making it happen. And for those who don't know, Trip is too important to be calling me.

Like, realistically, I know that Drip is too important to spend the time to text me, but that's not like. That's, like, just his character. He's that good of a guy that he's like, I know you.

He is an incredibly busy person, but he's like, I'm not gonna answer my 500. Like, literally, he gets, like, constant text all day from. From everyone wanting him to be on podcast.

He's like, I'm gonna ignore that for a minute and be like, josh, what do you need right now? Yeah, you know, literally putting behind the 99 for the 1 and being that 1 is so humbling.

And finding a community where you can be vulnerable enough to be the one. You know, that people are dropping to help, but then also being able to help when it's someone else's turn to be the one.

And you're like, I don't know. That community is. That's why we do this.

Ryan Does: 01:04:43

Joshua, do you remember what my first tattoo was? Have I ever told you this?

Joshua Noel: 01:04:49

I feel like you have. I'm a bad friend for forgetting. Oh, man. YouTube listeners getting a. Oh, this is great. Yeah.

Ryan Does: 01:04:57

The only Jesus tattoo I have is a mathematical showing of Jesus leaving the 99 for the 1 and the 1 is in red to remind myself that I am the one that was sought out and I am also the one that can go after man. To perfectly encapsulate Joshua's point.

Joshua Noel: 01:05:16

That's so good.

TJ Blackwell: 01:05:18

Before we wrap up, we ask everyone to share a moment where they saw God recently. Whether that be a blessing or a challenge or moment of worship or a podcast, Josh always goes first. So, Josh, do you have a God moment for us?

Joshua Noel: 01:05:34

Mine's an easy one and a shameful plug. I love it.

TJ Blackwell: 01:05:38

Shameful.

Joshua Noel: 01:05:39

Yeah. Yeah, very shameful.

Ryan Does: 01:05:40

Shame, shame. Game of Thrones.

Joshua Noel: 01:05:45

No, but one of our patrons. You, too, could be a patron. Actually, I met him at Theology Boot Camp last year, and everything's going on movie and everything.

Like, I just never had a chance to connect. And, like, we talked for, like, a passing moment, and I told him, I want to talk more. Let's get on the phone sometime.

And I have genuinely felt bad that I have not taken the time to do that. Cause, like, he supports two podcasts that I'm on. Right.

He's at Theology Beer Camp, sitting in these stages, taking his time to hear what we have to say and, like, cares. And.

Yeah, today I actually got to get on the phone with him and just talk for a while with no, like, agenda of, like, hey, let's get him on the show sometime, or anything like this. Just like, hey, man, you support us. I love you for it. And we're part of a community together.

And just talking to him and it's like, even though this was our first full conversation and he's so aware of the things that I'm a part of, it didn't really feel like that. Like, it felt like someone I've known for a while, and I was like, this is awesome.

So love him and just love that we are able to have these communities and make these connections with people, even if we're not able to talk to everyone. Who listens. It's really cool that we are making connections and getting to see. That was a special moment for me today, actually.

TJ Blackwell: 01:06:56

Yeah, for me. My God moment. It's really easy, I think, to forget how much people love you and how much people care about you.

This morning at like 5, I was already awake and I got a text from my sister. It was an application to sing the national anthem at the Spartanburg's baseball game for their team. And it's five in the morning.

She sees this and the first thing she thinks is, I should send this to TJ because I want to hear him sing more.

Joshua Noel: 01:07:31

I'm gonna start sending you stuff at 5:30 in the morning.

TJ Blackwell: 01:07:34

Oh my God. I didn't answer her. Still. I still haven't. I forgot.

Joshua Noel: 01:07:40

That's pretty funny.

TJ Blackwell: 01:07:42

But yeah, it's. It's nice to be reminded and it's. It's there and I need to answer that text until she's out of her mind.

Ryan Does: 01:07:49

I need to answer.

Joshua Noel: 01:07:50

Yeah, that's a good idea. Before this comes out, preferably.

Ryan Does: 01:07:57

Yeah, that would be awkward and funny.

TJ Blackwell: 01:08:02

But, Brian, do you have a God moment for us this week? Your first one ever. First ever Ryan Doe's God moment.

Ryan Does: 01:08:08

First ever God moment. Yeah.

So I think God has a sense of humor with these kind of things because randomly friends will call me or text me at certain times where I'm just struggling. I was struggling or just like, you know, kind of just not having a great day.

So over the weekend, my wife and I had just a really rough parenting stretch. Like kids were just kind of testing us in ways that we were maybe not the most equipped for in the moment.

And I wake up early on Sunday, make a coffee. I'm watching, currently watching through a show called Love, Death and Robots and loving it.

TJ Blackwell: 01:08:52

So good.

Ryan Does: 01:08:54

And I'm just trying to like, have like some alone time, like. And love tj. It sounds like you've seen it.

So, like, Love, Death and Robots is one of those shows where it just, it entices you with questions and hypothesizing about what the world could look like. And I'm just like enjoying this moment. And Josh Patterson sends me a text and says, hey, dude, you were in my dreams last night. You need to call me.

And I was like, this is weird. So he calls me and he's like, by the way, had a dream last night that you, me and Will Rose were attacked by polar bears. You didn't make it.

We did though. And I was like, why? What is this, guys? I. I laughed my Ass off. It was hilarious.

So I like that those moments, like, is it a God moment in, like, the big existential way? No, but it's a reminder that, like, my friends love me, my friend.

My friends share joy with me, and it was a good reprieve from the parenting war that I'm currently in.

TJ Blackwell: 01:09:53

And they attend your bear funeral.

Ryan Does: 01:09:56

Yeah. And. And for some reason, Joshua's subconscious thinks that I'm gonna be taken out by a polar bear.

TJ Blackwell: 01:10:03

Yeah. If the youth group has superlatives. You did win. Least likely to survive. A polar bear attacked.

Ryan Does: 01:10:08

I mean, I get it. I'm the slowest.

TJ Blackwell: 01:10:10

We've all been there.

Ryan Does: 01:10:11

I'm game.

Joshua Noel: 01:10:12

Slippery hope.

Ryan Does: 01:10:13

I'm slow of hope. Yes.

Joshua Noel: 01:10:15

Yeah. So I. Man, I can only dream of Josh Patterson dreaming of me, but also, man, I think what Jack Patterson would say about your moment.

God doesn't exist, but he insists in that moment that you die.

Ryan Does: 01:10:29

Bipolar bear.

Joshua Noel: 01:10:31

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 01:10:34

Actually, leading cause of death for podcasters, if you didn't know. So please consider sharing this episode with a friend. Friend. Share with your enemies. Share with a cousin.

You looked around like you didn't know that sound was good.

Ryan Does: 01:10:47

I. No, I did not know that a didgeridoo was coming.

TJ Blackwell: 01:10:51

It's mine.

Joshua Noel: 01:10:52

What else do you do during God moments?

TJ Blackwell: 01:10:53

Over there?

Joshua Noel: 01:10:54

You play a dentry.

TJ Blackwell: 01:10:56

So if you want to support the show and you want to, you know, show that little extra bit that you care, check out our merch. The link is in the show notes. We've got some cool stuff. We wear it kind of often. I'm a big fan of black shirts, so I just. I just.

Usually just wear black shirts. I don't really look at them before I put them on, but same here. We have some cool stuff.

Joshua Noel: 01:11:18

Yeah. Also check out some of the other shows in the network. I really have been digging Brandon Knight's Kung Fu Pizza party. It's wonderful.

So check that out. And Will Rose, we talked about him a lot. He has a show show, the homily with Will Rose that I keep neglecting to update because I produce it.

But he's also about to start. We'll laugh about this later. And I was supposed to call him about that today and forgot as well. Yeah, I'm great.

TJ Blackwell: 01:11:45

Yeah. So we hope you enjoyed this show and the confession.

Next week, we will be joined by Jerry Koontz, that's Joshua's uncle, who's a devout Catholic and strategic account manager for Spectrum. He's going to join us to keep this series going.

And then next, Kristen Tiedemann, the legend and co owner of Tidyco will join us to discuss her job and how her faith tradition impacts her daily life as an event planner. And then we'll be interviewing Officer Thurman about how his faith impacts his life as a police officer in South Carolina.

Finally, at the end of season one, and this is news, I think, to most people, Francis Chan is going to be on the show. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:27

Yeah. He's unaware, but someone will tell him eventually and then he'll know and then he'll agree and then he'll be on and we'll.

In season one, like 700 episodes in or something.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:38

Yeah, I'm thinking non.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:40

Yeah, 900.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:42

Yeah, it's perfect.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:43

Yeah, that's a good number.

Ryan Does: 01:12:46

That was.

TJ Blackwell: 01:12:47

That was hilarious.

Ryan Does: 01:12:49

Oh, man.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:50

I'm supposed to do this now. I'm not doing this. I'm just gonna end it. They can go to the podcast.

Day, Porter's Gate Collective: 01:13:12

Lord, please put your hands and on us day by day Lord, have mercy on us Lord, please put your hand on us day by day.