Episode 268
Ninja Coach: Bridging Theology and Everyday Life
The concluding episode of our "Whole Church Job Fair" series presents a compelling dialogue between Joshua Noel and Brandon Knight, who serves as a "Ninja Coach" at the YMCA. The primary focus of this discussion is to explore the relevance of theological topics typically debated within ecclesiastical and academic circles to the everyday experiences of individuals engaged in non-vocational ministry roles. Throughout their conversation, Knight reflects on his journey from seminary to his current profession, evaluating whether the theological education he received holds any significance in his daily life. This episode not only encapsulates insights from Knight’s unique vocation but also underscores the broader theme of how diverse occupations can intersect with spiritual and theological principles. As we conclude this series, we invite listeners to anticipate an encore episode next week, followed by a Round Table discussion in three weeks, featuring various pastors and professors who will reflect on the insights shared throughout this series.
The concluding episode of our 'Whole Church Job Fair' series features an engaging dialogue between Joshua Noel and Brandon Knight, who delves into his unique role as a 'Ninja Coach' at the YMCA. This enlightening conversation explores the intersection of vocational ministry and secular employment, specifically examining whether the theological discussions prevalent in seminaries hold any significance in everyday work environments. Brandon's journey from seminary to becoming a Ninja Coach illustrates the diverse paths individuals take and challenges the notion that ministry is confined solely to the pulpit. Through their discourse, they highlight the importance of viewing all professions as avenues for ministry, fostering a sense of unity among those in various occupations. Joshua and Brandon also confront the technical difficulties encountered during recording, adding a layer of authenticity to the episode, while the overarching theme emphasizes how individuals can embody their faith in every aspect of their lives, including their day jobs.
Takeaways:
- In this final episode of the Whole Church Job Fair series, we explore the relevance of theological discussions in everyday occupations.
- Brandon Knight, a Ninja Coach, shares insights on how his seminary education shapes his current work and interactions with children.
- The episode emphasizes the importance of seeing all forms of work as ministry, regardless of the field or job title.
- Through the lens of Ninja Zone, we learn how teaching physical skills can also promote social justice and community engagement.
- Brandon argues for the necessity of ethical training in pastoral education to ensure accountability and integrity within ministry.
- The discussion reveals the disconnect between theological education and practical application in various societal roles, advocating for a holistic view of ministry.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Ninja Zone
- YMCA
- Anazao
- My Seminary Life
- Kung Fu Pizza Party
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Check out all of the other shows in the Anazao Podcast Network:
https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm
.
Don't miss any of the episodes we've done in our "Whole Church Job Fair" series so far:
https://player.captivate.fm/collection/660c787f-d176-4587-b3b1-1e8fce4df217
.
Check out My Seminary Life & Kung Fu Pizza Party with Brandon Knight:
.
Check out more from TJ on Systematic Geekology:
https://player.captivate.fm/collection/642da9db-496a-40f5-b212-7013d1e211e0
.
Check out Joshua's Kingdom Hearts substack, The Kingdom Key:
https://thekingdomkey.substack.com/
.
Wanna meet our hosts? Get your tickets to Theology Beer Camp 2025 to meet Joshua & TJ in St Paul, MN, this fall!
Transcript
In this episode, Brandon and I had some technical difficulties we had to work through.
Speaker A:There was actually a glitch on the software we were recording with where there was actually a delay on my end.
Speaker A:It's nothing too bad, but it is noticeable in the episode sometimes where one of us might just react a little later or reacting to something out of order.
Speaker A:That's just all that's about.
Speaker A:But really great episode talking with Brandonite about being a ninja coach.
Speaker A:So I think it's worth your time.
Speaker A:So stick around and just be aware if some reactions happen out of order.
Speaker A:That's why Hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker B:Serving you remind us of our Savior's bowl and tow Teacher, you are raising up a child to be kind lawyer.
Speaker B:Give us hope that justice one day will surround us.
Speaker B:May God's kingdom come on earth.
Speaker B:His will be done.
Speaker A: , verses: Speaker A:Be angry and do not sin.
Speaker A:Don't let the sun go down on your anger and don't give the devil an opportunity.
Speaker A:Let the thief no longer steal.
Speaker A:Instead he has to do honest work with his own hands so that he has something to share with anyone in need.
Speaker A:No foul language should come from your mouth, but only what is good for building up someone in need so that it gives grace to those who hear.
Speaker A:In the book of Ephesians, St.
Speaker A:Paul is explaining what it means to be the church before this pericope.
Speaker A:Paul writes that the church is to work together in all our different roles or, you know, things here.
Speaker A:St.
Speaker A:Paul insists that the church builds one another up in word, in deeds, and he even ties our occupational work to this idea of building each other up.
Speaker A:Brandon Knight how do you think the way that we present ourselves and work can tie into this idea of building one another up?
Speaker C:Well, when it comes to our different occupations, our different jobs, you know, we use our gifts, our talents or whatever that is to the glory of God.
Speaker C:And that includes people who aren't in vocational ministry.
Speaker C:You know, everyone has an occupation, everyone has a job.
Speaker C:And so we, as we are providing good customer service, as we are protecting our communities, as we are teaching specific skills to students and individuals, we are building people up.
Speaker C:As we are doing this to the glory of God and with a heart of I care about you and therefore I am going to do my job.
Speaker C:Well, we are building people up.
Speaker C:It may not look, you know, when you hear that building each other up, I think we immediately Jump to some form of, like, sanctification.
Speaker C:Like, oh, we're being a part of the growth of an individual spiritually.
Speaker C:But, you know, this can look broader.
Speaker C:This can look like, you know, making communities safe.
Speaker C:That's a big deal.
Speaker C:That's caring about your neighbor.
Speaker C:You know, even passing along skills, trades, and all that kind of stuff is.
Speaker C:It's all still in this realm of doing good by others through our vocation.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker B:Lord, be close to us.
Speaker B:Lord, have mercy on us.
Speaker B:Lord, please put your hands on us day by day.
Speaker A:Hey, guys, welcome back to the Whole Church Job fair part of the Whole Church podcast.
Speaker A:And like any good season finale, we're filled with technical difficulties and glitches throughout.
Speaker A:That's what everybody wants.
Speaker A:Like, you waited for the suspenseful end, and then there's a glitch, and it just ends.
Speaker A:I should.
Speaker A:I should just end the recording right here.
Speaker A:That'd be great.
Speaker A:I am your host, Joshua Dole, here with, I don't know, one of my favorite returned guests, one of my favorite podcasters.
Speaker A:You know, I've always loved my seminary life.
Speaker A:And then you started doing Kung Fu Pizza Party, and I'm like, maybe if I just had, like, a podcast from Brandon a day, you know, like.
Speaker A:Like an apple a day for the doctor away.
Speaker A:But, like, maybe a Brandon a Day keeps, I don't know, depression away or something.
Speaker A:The one and only Brandon Knight.
Speaker A:That's so good to have you back, man.
Speaker A:I mean, maybe it doesn't help you.
Speaker A:It just helps others.
Speaker A:You still have to go through the like, because you can't have your own.
Speaker A:You are Brandon.
Speaker C:Yeah, I am.
Speaker C:This cause of my depression.
Speaker C:It's just what it comes down to.
Speaker C:But I'm glad it came out.
Speaker A:Well, it heals us all the blues.
Speaker C:Away for other people.
Speaker A:You heal us all, but also, you're your own.
Speaker C:I am my own worst enemy.
Speaker C:Whatever that song was.
Speaker C:Hi, Vulture.
Speaker C:It's good to see you all.
Speaker C:And this is the finale.
Speaker C:You saved this, this conversation for the finale?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The most relevant job.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker A:The most relevant job for the finale.
Speaker A:You guys have been like, man, we don't care about these other ones.
Speaker A:The only icon on the logo for the series that relates to me is that little ninja.
Speaker A:What's he about?
Speaker A:That's me.
Speaker A:And all you listeners who are like, I'm the ninja.
Speaker A:Well, here's the man that relates to you.
Speaker A:The one and only ninja coach, Brandon Knight.
Speaker A:Which is great, because now I can call you, like, your sensei, your Teacher, your pastor, your coach.
Speaker A:I just click something different each time I refer to you in this episode.
Speaker C:I think I remember one time, couple months ago, you reached out to me, you were like, hey, man, you know, you just did a guest appearance on another show and they kept calling you Pastor Brandon the whole time.
Speaker C:And I don't usually do that.
Speaker C:And I just want to know, like, is that what you want to be called?
Speaker C:And I remember responding to you by saying, for 20 bucks, you can call me whatever you want.
Speaker C:So in this episode, just go for it, Josh.
Speaker C:Just whatever name you got on a go with.
Speaker C:But yes, my.
Speaker C:My actual career title is Ninja Coach.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And in your prettiness, his $20 is in the mail.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:Your prettiness, Brandon is here.
Speaker A:Princess Knight is going to tell us all about what it's like to work for the why be a Ninja Coach dealing with kids?
Speaker A:And part of why Brandon is part of the finale is he also, he went through seminary.
Speaker A:He kind of learned about being a pastor.
Speaker A:He kind of does this pulpit supply ministry we've talked about before.
Speaker A:He goes to different churches.
Speaker A:He fills in there.
Speaker A:Brandon's a little bit of an all right.
Speaker A:Like, he works in the real world.
Speaker A:He works in pastors.
Speaker A:He's seen different churches from the inside and outside.
Speaker A:And so he's got the ultimate authority.
Speaker A:When we ask him what's relevant, he knows.
Speaker A:He knows.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, I am excited for that part.
Speaker A:All right, so before we get to Dragon Slayer, Brandon Story, we are.
Speaker A:I do have to go through TJ's parts.
Speaker A:Make sure you check out the rest of the Anazao podcast network.
Speaker A:There's shows like My Seminary Life and Kung Fu Pizza Party on there.
Speaker A:You should check those out.
Speaker A:Let's see.
Speaker A:I really am just like scrolling through and reading and I'm sorry, listeners, I don't know how to do TJ's parts.
Speaker A:There are paid subscriptions.
Speaker A:That's in bold for some reason.
Speaker A:Uncaptivate Apple Podcasts and Patreon for extra content where you can support all of our ministries.
Speaker A:Apple Podcasts, you can just actually subscribe to the Onazel Network and get a bunch of different bonus from different shows.
Speaker A:And that's probably the most cost effective way to do it, honestly, is Apple Podcasts.
Speaker A:But if you want to support us individually, it's easier to do that on Patreon, I think.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And now Brandon, you know, because I fit so serious so far that, yeah, yeah, I'm running out of titles already.
Speaker A:We always start our show off with some Silliness.
Speaker A:It's a holy sacrament here.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And this time, our good friend Samantha Perez.
Speaker A:You know, on our Facebook group, we were like, hey, guys, what are the biggest theological questions that are argued about in our churches and seminaries?
Speaker A:And Samantha Perez goes, wait, is a hot dog a sandwich?
Speaker A:And then that got a ton of votes for some reason.
Speaker A:So now that just had to be incorporated somewhere in the series.
Speaker A:So it's our silly question for this.
Speaker A:I need to know Captain Brandon Knight.
Speaker A:Is a hot dog a sandwich?
Speaker C:That's Mr.
Speaker C:Doctor Professor Brandon to you.
Speaker C:Is a hot dog a sandwich?
Speaker C:So when it comes to this philosophical debate that has.
Speaker C:That dates back to Aristotle, I'm pretty.
Speaker A:Sure the church has been wrestling with this one for a while.
Speaker C:For a very long time.
Speaker C:I don't know why we can't just let a hot dog be a hot dog, but I do see the argument of it is a.
Speaker C:An object wrapped around dough, but not encased by said bread, because obviously if it's encased, then it becomes a dumpling ravioli or a pop tart, which is its own theological and philosophical debate in of itself.
Speaker C:So is a hot dog a sandwich?
Speaker C:I will go with yes, based off of the construct, although I guess it could be a regional issue as well.
Speaker C:Where.
Speaker C:Where do you land on this first tier theological issue?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, people had to make it halfway through the series before they really found out.
Speaker A:You know, TJ told him early on that he believed it is, in fact, a sandwich.
Speaker A:He gave, like, an Oxford definition.
Speaker A:I feel back on my.
Speaker A:My more daoist leanings of, like, sometimes we just overthink things and simplicity is the answer.
Speaker A:And when I see a hot dog, I'm not like, oh, man, that's my favorite sandwich.
Speaker A:You know, like, just doesn't.
Speaker A:Doesn't pop in my head.
Speaker C:That's a very.
Speaker C:That's a very good point too, though, because, like, that's nowhere near when I think of, like, oh, I'm gonna go to Jersey Mike's or Jimmy John's.
Speaker C:I don't go there for hot dogs.
Speaker C:I go there for sandwiches, you know.
Speaker A:Now where's the hot dogs?
Speaker C:Where's the hot dog?
Speaker C:Sorry for my Chicago accent.
Speaker C:Where's my hot dog?
Speaker C:At his favorite sandwich.
Speaker C:So you're like, more at the.
Speaker C:All right, so you're so in your Dallas leaning.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:You're gonna go more of, like, simplicity.
Speaker C:Just let it be.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, and.
Speaker A:And here we go.
Speaker A:I'll make a more thorough argument for the finale here.
Speaker A:And since TJ Can't Defend, you know, his side.
Speaker A:You, you could defend his side for him.
Speaker A:I think the whole reason this question can exist is because they come up with a question knowing that you don't want to say a hot dog's a sandwich.
Speaker A:The whole reason that someone asked this question is because inherently we all are like, hot dog's not a sandwich.
Speaker A:But none of us have a good explanation for why it's not.
Speaker A:So the whole reason you ask the question is just so you could tell someone that they're wrong and that it is a sandwich.
Speaker A:Because technically, look at the definition.
Speaker A:But the fact that you asked it knowing that people don't want to say it's a sandwich tells me that, you know it's not a sandwich.
Speaker A:Sorry, Samantha, I think you gave away your answer by, you know, asking the question.
Speaker C:You know, often Josh is referred to as the ultimate UNO reverse card.
Speaker C:But here's the thing, that was a really good use the UNO reverse card there of like.
Speaker C:But why are you asking that question?
Speaker C:Because we ask these kinds of questions in the academic world to screw with the professor and just draw out the class a little bit now.
Speaker C:Samantha.
Speaker C:Samantha, right?
Speaker C:Samantha.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, let's.
Speaker C:We'll do one for you.
Speaker C:Is a pop Tart a dumpling?
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:I'll find out Next time on Find out next time.
Speaker A:Take a shower.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You should have to follow all the on the Zelpod test network shows to figure out which show was gonna answer that question.
Speaker A:We do have a follow up.
Speaker A:In what ways, if any, do you think this question could be relevant to your life?
Speaker C:Oh, it would absolutely be relevant because I'm not even joking here.
Speaker C:No, I'm not.
Speaker C:Don't put, don't put ketchup on it.
Speaker C:I mean I do, but don't put ketchup on it.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:I could see how this could be a very relevant question though, because my son, he's turning three here pretty soon, probably by the time this episode comes out, he'll be three years old.
Speaker C:And that means here pretty soon, like in another like year or two afterwards, he's going to start the why phase, the question phase of like constantly asking questions.
Speaker C:And you know what a little four year old would ask?
Speaker C:The question is a hot dog a sandwich?
Speaker A:And then he'll ask why?
Speaker C:So yeah, I think it could happen.
Speaker A:Until you're, you're left with what even is a hot dog.
Speaker A:What, what is this meat anyway?
Speaker A:And with that we should do that sandwich maybe.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about more serious things now like ninjas.
Speaker A:The Reason we're doing this series is because a lot of our listeners are pastors, theologians, church leaders, people who attend seminary.
Speaker A:You know those, those kind of people according to stats and stuff that we blindly trust.
Speaker A:And we believe our church leaders should benefit from hearing more and learning from people who are in different occupations other than just ministry.
Speaker A:So that's how we're doing the series or finished doing.
Speaker A:That's why we did the series.
Speaker A:I can say now.
Speaker A:Weird.
Speaker A:Our listeners though, they probably remember you from your work as a pulpit supply minister over on my Seminary Life.
Speaker A:I don't know if you've been on the show since you started Kung Fu Pizza Party, but you also now work as a ninja coach for the ymca.
Speaker A:You want to fill our listeners in for like just, just catch them up a little bit.
Speaker A:What's up with you?
Speaker A:What's this chapter in your life now that seems so focused on kung fu and ninja ism?
Speaker A:And when do we get samurai out?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh man, I'm working on the samurai thing, man.
Speaker C:So I was thinking about this.
Speaker C:I'm not even sure when was the last time was on whole church.
Speaker C:I was really thinking about this.
Speaker C:I was supposed to be on a couple months ago when you did the Christian mysticism episode and that just didn't work out for me to be here.
Speaker C:So I'm don't, I don't.
Speaker C:It may have been a while now.
Speaker C:So I'll just kind of do.
Speaker C:I'll do the best I can.
Speaker C:So back in back before I knew Josh, like very shortly before I knew Josh, I went back to seminary and started my seminary life as a show to recap what I was studying every week.
Speaker C:Here's what was a homework assignment.
Speaker C:Here's the book I read.
Speaker C:I read things like that got connected with Josh.
Speaker C:We launched Systematic Ecology.
Speaker C:Eventually I graduate from seminary about two years after meeting Josh and we launched the Andaz Ministries podcast network.
Speaker C:And it was a whirlwind of a time there.
Speaker C:The show took this, yeah, this show took this pivot and became more of like I'm going to now do deep dives into subjects that I want to study or things that I didn't study in seminary that I probably should have, like apologetics.
Speaker C:Didn't have to take any apologetics classes.
Speaker C:And I love bringing that up because it always makes Christian Ashley cringe.
Speaker C:And also just that laugh though.
Speaker C:But the whole time I have been wanting to start a second show.
Speaker C:I'm a stay at home dad so my availability fluctuates.
Speaker C:But I really wanted to start a Second show, and I was still trying to get into vocational ministry.
Speaker C:How to do this next part quickly, I don't know.
Speaker C:So sorry, listeners, you're going to hear me talk a lot in this episode.
Speaker C:TJ always talks so much on whole church that it's hard to get a word in edgewise.
Speaker C:So you're just going to have to listen to me talk more.
Speaker C: aduated from Bible College in: Speaker C: So from the fall of: Speaker C: well during that time period,: Speaker C:During that time period, I applied to roughly somewhere in between two to 300 jobs related to vocational ministry, the bulk of them being pastoral ministry.
Speaker C:And I predominantly got ghosted.
Speaker C:I predominantly heard the word no out of.
Speaker C:Like I said, it was somewhere between 2 or 300.
Speaker C:I had to start an Excel SP spreadsheet at one point to keep track.
Speaker C:Not for my own personal enjoyment, because I got no enjoyment out of it, but because I realized at one point I was accidentally applying to the same job twice.
Speaker C:So I needed some kind of system so that way I wouldn't do that.
Speaker C:And during that time period, out of that many job applications sent out, I received less than 10 interviews, most of them not going anywhere beyond the first round interview process.
Speaker C:A lot of them, even when I thought maybe I was going to land the job, they ended up just ghosting me and never following through.
Speaker C:And like months later, I'm reaching out like, hey, what's going on?
Speaker C:And they're like, oh, yeah, we hired someone like months ago.
Speaker C:Why are you reaching out to us?
Speaker C:I even had one church and this was like, during se.
Speaker C: o somewhere right around like: Speaker C:I applied and they did respond back to let me know that if by this point no church had hired me, they seriously doubt God had called me into ministry.
Speaker C:So that was great.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker C:Yes, true story.
Speaker C:So all the while, like, everybody who's in my corner, like, wanting to support me and want, you know, from my parents to my brothers to my friends to my wife and a lot of my friends who were in ministry, they were encouraging me the best they knew how to.
Speaker C:Oh, you know, the disciples, they weren't qualified for what God called them into.
Speaker C:Which is a weird comment to make because I think Judas had a very specific purpose.
Speaker C:You're super qualified.
Speaker C:He was super called for what he was supposed to do.
Speaker C:Or like the whole.
Speaker C:God doesn't.
Speaker C:What's the one.
Speaker C:What's the one really nice thing people like to say?
Speaker A:God, he doesn't call the qualified.
Speaker C:Qualified.
Speaker C:He qualified.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that one.
Speaker C:Got that one a lot.
Speaker C:And then just started getting all this advice, like, you know, yeah, Especially early on, like, hey, once you get married, once you have a kid, once you're like in your late 20s, early 30s, once you get that master's degree, like, then churches are really going to be interested in you because obviously that's all right there in the third letter to Timothy, that those are the qualifications of a pastor.
Speaker C:That, you know, you're 30 years old with a wife and a kid.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I've read that one.
Speaker C:Sarcasm.
Speaker C:So you read that one.
Speaker C:Good.
Speaker C:So I'm like checking all of these additional boxes.
Speaker C:I think my favorite one of all of these, like, cliches and other things that people are saying is that my favorite, absolute favorite one was when I graduated from college, I took my resume and my cover letter to the, like, office that helps graduates get jobs.
Speaker C:And they made some tweaks, nothing revolutionary.
Speaker C:Just like, oh, you should use these kinds of words and you should use dashes instead of bullet points.
Speaker C:Fast forward just a few months later, I am in seminary.
Speaker C:And I now have that same resume at that office in seminary that I did seminary twice.
Speaker C: d mention that in the fall of: Speaker C:Eventually had to drop out.
Speaker C:So I'm in the fall.
Speaker C: It's the fall of: Speaker C:I take that my exact same resume to that office that helps people get jobs.
Speaker C:And that guy looked me dead in the eye and said, you should really use bullet points instead of dashes.
Speaker C:And it was like, that was like the earliest foreshadowing.
Speaker C:That was the earliest foreshadowing.
Speaker C:And I'm trying to watch my language and all of this.
Speaker C:That was the earliest foreshadowing that.
Speaker C:But this is all BS.
Speaker C:There is just so much BS that goes into this process.
Speaker C: So summer of: Speaker C:And I thought I frickin nailed the job interview.
Speaker C:Knocked it out of the park.
Speaker C:They even did the whole like, okay, you're going to hear from us in A few days now, wink.
Speaker C:Few days go by.
Speaker C:Whatever that day was that they were like, well, we'll reach back out here in a few days.
Speaker C:Whatever that day was comes and goes.
Speaker C:I send a email to the people, I'm like, hey, just checking in.
Speaker C:Anything that you all need from me.
Speaker C:And the response back was, we moved on to other candidates.
Speaker C:And that was the straw.
Speaker C:That was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Speaker C:Because then when I replied with, well, do you have any feedback for me?
Speaker C:Never heard from them again.
Speaker C:And that was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.
Speaker C:Because I had spent the majority of the past eight years, you could even throw in my time in college as well.
Speaker C:So like over 10 years now, just trying to get evangelical Christianity to take a shot at me.
Speaker C:Okay, that was, that was it.
Speaker C:That was all I was trying to do.
Speaker C:Just somebody take a shot at me.
Speaker C:Just try.
Speaker C:Nobody wanted me.
Speaker C:Nobody.
Speaker C:And it finally I remember telling my wife, I was like, basically, at this point, I get it.
Speaker C:Getting a pastor job, the people hiring, they are the captain of the cheerleading squad in high school and I am the nerdy AV kid who's got no chance.
Speaker C:And I get it.
Speaker C:And I'm fine with that.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:I do not feel the need to make you like me anymore.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:You don't.
Speaker C:You don't want me.
Speaker C:I get it.
Speaker C:I was still frustrated because I was still frustrated.
Speaker C:I was still down about it.
Speaker C:And I was in counseling at the time.
Speaker C:Not with a Christian counselor, but a guy who just respected my views nonetheless.
Speaker C:And just in a moment of wow, my client really needs a win right Here he goes, next time you look for a job.
Speaker C:Because really at this point I'm just trying to find a job to get me out of the house because I am a stay at home parent and just need a little bit more of an income boost.
Speaker C:And the whole bit.
Speaker C:He goes, next time you look for a job, just try something different.
Speaker C:Look and see what your local boys and girls club, what your local YMCA is looking for.
Speaker C:I'm sure they would be happy to have somebody who is like you, like an older guy.
Speaker C:The older person who's going to care about making an impact on kids.
Speaker C:They're always looking for that kind of people.
Speaker C:Like, okay, so next time I got an indeed.
Speaker C:I looked up ymca and the very first job listing was for NINJA coach.
Speaker C:And I always make the joke when you're on and when I.
Speaker C:When you're on, indeed, and you see NINJA coach, you apply and ask questions.
Speaker C:Later.
Speaker C:You don't.
Speaker C:You just go for it.
Speaker C:You don't.
Speaker C:You just go for it.
Speaker C:And I got the job.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:That's what you do.
Speaker C:And I got the job and haven't looked back.
Speaker C:I really enjoy it.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker C:And about.
Speaker C:I think it was about back in September, like I said, I've been wanting to start a second show for a while, and the concept for Kung Fu Pizza Party was one that I had been sitting on for a very long time.
Speaker C:Just like this.
Speaker C:Initially, very focused on doing martial art movie, kung Fu Samurai, ninja flick reviews, just doing, like, movie reviews.
Speaker C:But because there's so little, it's so surprising.
Speaker C:There's, like, very little, like, pop culture, martial art content out there by way in the podcast world that is, like, there's so little, like, shows devoted to that stuff.
Speaker C:I was like, you know what?
Speaker C:I think I'm gonna branch this out a little bit and start incorporating more than just doing movie reviews.
Speaker C:And so, you know, that's just been going since September.
Speaker C:It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker C:And, yeah, I know that is probably way more detail than what you were looking for of what's been going on in your life, but that whole, like, the journey from the journey from seminary to where I'm at now seems like such a weird jump of, like, how did the seminarian end up being a ninja coach?
Speaker C:But, like, you had to understand, like, where I was at up until that point.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So, yeah, that's me.
Speaker C:That's what's been going on.
Speaker C:And I have been looking forward to talking about all of this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, man, That's a lot.
Speaker A:That's a lot.
Speaker A:I think this is probably a good place to mention.
Speaker A:I hope to have Brandon back later this year in the fall.
Speaker A:We've been doing two series each year.
Speaker A:This fall, our series is going to be.
Speaker A:Haven't quite got the name for it yet.
Speaker A:It's like behind the scenes of the church kind of deal.
Speaker A:Maybe behind the pulpit.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:But I want to do a series of what happens behind those big church events we go to or what goes into creating that worship setting that happens on stage and behind the scenes of a seminary.
Speaker A:That's fun, too.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker C:Oh, interesting.
Speaker A:Jarring.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:But keep that in mind.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, well, DJ's not here to stop me.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:One of the things that, for me, that's been sticking out since I started more embracing, like, the Taoist stuff for myself is the whole concept of the tay of, like, your truest self, which, you know, given the Bible.
Speaker A:I believe my true self is found in Christ because I am a Christian.
Speaker A:What's interesting is, like, how many times we find this older in life after we're like, I no longer care what these people think about me.
Speaker A:I'm going to do my thing, whatever that thing is.
Speaker A:For me, it was deciding that it's not preaching from a pulpit with churches I disagree with until maybe one day I'll convince them to agree with me.
Speaker A:It's not going to happen.
Speaker A:I kind of learned to lean into this podcasting thing, and that's going to become my ministry.
Speaker A:Hearing your story and how it seems like you're starting to find yourself more in kung fu, martial arts kind of stuff and finding a way to incorporate that into ministry has been.
Speaker A:It's encouraging to me to watch that happen with you.
Speaker A:It's like, wow, it's really cool.
Speaker A:Another thing for me, of course, was for a long time, Kingdom Hearts was that thing that I really liked and I didn't talk about too much.
Speaker A:And then one day I was like, actually, it's where I get a lot of meaning in who I am and just stop carrying that.
Speaker A:People think I'm weird for that.
Speaker A:Which is why I now have a substack.
Speaker A:Okay, sorry.
Speaker A:We're having some technical difficulties, so I'm never sure if I'm delayed or, you see, heard anything.
Speaker A:So I'm just going move on to the next thing.
Speaker A:This is our whole church job fair.
Speaker A:So before getting anything else, Brandon.
Speaker A:Okay, before anything else, if somehow someone's never heard of what you do, Brandon, how would you describe the job of a ninja coach?
Speaker A:And how would you address anyone who might be interested in pursuing said career?
Speaker C:I would be pleasantly surprised if anybody knew what this was, because I had no idea what it was.
Speaker C:So I will say this.
Speaker C:I did kind of the glitches.
Speaker C:The glitches, man, are getting to us.
Speaker C:But I will say, just to kind of jump off of what you were saying there a moment ago, a little bit, like, yeah, I think there's a part of this of, like, embracing not, like, a new part of my identity or trying to completely shut out a different part of my identity, but just, like, embracing a fuller picture.
Speaker C:As a kid, like, as a very young child, I had people telling me, brandon, you're probably going to grow up and be a pastor one day.
Speaker C:And that does something to a person.
Speaker C:It does something to a person.
Speaker C:I don't care how toxically positive you are.
Speaker C:To be rejected that much.
Speaker C:But being told at a very young age that like, hey, Brandon, you're going to grow up and be a pastor one day, like that, that is a very different way to shepherd a person.
Speaker C:I'll just put it that way.
Speaker C:And so I think for me, I'm just kind of in a place of like, seeing my life more than just this one factor.
Speaker C:So, again, I'm a ninja coach with an organization called Ninja Zone.
Speaker C:Ninja Zone started in the middle of nowhere, Indiana.
Speaker C:That is not the name of the town, but if you look at it on the map, that's kind of what it looks like.
Speaker C:It's in a suburb of Indianapolis.
Speaker C:Because when you think ninja, you think cornfields in Indiana.
Speaker C:Basically, the idea behind Ninja Zone was at some point in history, gymnastics became gendered.
Speaker C:I don't know why, I don't know who made the decision.
Speaker C:But at some point, gymnastics very much became a girl activity.
Speaker C:It was something for the girls.
Speaker C:I mean, I mean, you even look at like the Olympics, nobody gives a rip about the men's team.
Speaker C:It's all about the women's when it comes to the Summer Games.
Speaker C:And you know, as somebody who has now worked in a gymnastics environment for a year and a half, that's very true.
Speaker C:Like, there's hardly any boys in just the gymnastics or tumbling courses.
Speaker C:It is the.
Speaker C:They're just not there.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I don't know who made this decision, but that's what happened.
Speaker C:And so Ninja Zone was an attempt to introduce gymnastics to boys in a.
Speaker C:In a way that would be very stereotypical appealing to boys.
Speaker C:So along with gymnastics, it also introduces parkour and tricking, which is really cool, flashy martial art kicks that are not good for self defense, but they sure do look cool.
Speaker C:So it brings those three together, paints everything, paints everything black, throws a little cartoon, cartoon ninja on.
Speaker C:I don't know if we're doing a video version of this, but Josh, I got one of my work shirts on, so you can kind of see the shirt a little bit black and red is like the two big colors.
Speaker C:And there's other, like martial art like themes that kind of get brought into it.
Speaker C:It's by no means a.
Speaker C:It is by no means a self defense thing though.
Speaker C:It is very much an activity is how I.
Speaker C:It's like a martial art activity is kind of how I talk about it with parents.
Speaker C:If you are imagining the game show American Ninja Warrior, but for children, you're actually not too far off.
Speaker C:That is a lot of what my job is.
Speaker C:And I work specifically at 8.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I work specifically at a local YMCA here in my area.
Speaker C:They are a, an officially licensed gym that has Ninja Zone.
Speaker C:So that is.
Speaker C:And like I said, my job title is literally Ninja Coach.
Speaker C:That is on my resume, resume now as a 30 year old adult.
Speaker C:And I love it.
Speaker A:I, I also love it.
Speaker A:I love telling people that I'm friends with a Ninja coach.
Speaker A:It's great.
Speaker A:Oh man.
Speaker A:So for maybe a lot of people out there, they hear Ninja Coach, they might think like that's a really sweet sounding job.
Speaker A:That sounds super cool or maybe like that's kind of weird.
Speaker A:You know, even with your description for a lot of people, it's still kind of unique.
Speaker A:Probably for yourself.
Speaker A:How would you, I don't know, compare it to other jobs in ways that you think, like what makes it unique, but then also what ways?
Speaker A:Maybe this job is more like some other jobs that people might relate to.
Speaker C:So it is a very quirky job.
Speaker C:But when it comes to relating to other jobs, if you do something that involves children, like chat, not necessarily like child care, but if you're doing like an after school program, this is just a very unique style of a after school program.
Speaker C:Our biggest, you know, I work in the late afternoon and evenings.
Speaker C:That's kind of our, our main event time.
Speaker C:I guess you could put it like that's our, our big time for all of our classes.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, it's just kind of like a really cool, very unique after school program.
Speaker C:And again, if you're, you know, if you're someone out there who has taught in a gymnastics, tumbling, even cheer environment, like there's plenty of overlap.
Speaker C:There's a lot of unique elements to it, but there are a lot of overlap within, you know, the skills that are taught as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:As a Ninja coach, someone who talks with kids, you know, kids love fun word things.
Speaker A:What's some of the fun lingo you get to use?
Speaker A:Because there's got to be something that's just like crazy that you could say all the time that nobody else does.
Speaker C:I mean, so a lot of that comes down to the ridiculous names that these skills have.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So like my job is to, I guess I haven't actually like really explained this.
Speaker C:So my job is to teach these skills, these parkour, gymnastics and trick kicks to students who are like elementary age predominantly.
Speaker C:We actually do start as young as 18 months.
Speaker C:If the kid can walk, they can become a Ninja.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker C:And so my job is to teach these kids.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:So the, it's called Baby Ninja because of course it is.
Speaker C:And Baby Ninja is.
Speaker C:Baby Ninja is a parent class.
Speaker C:So our job is really just Baby Ninja.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:Does sound like a, like a Pixar or Dreamworks movie.
Speaker C:Basically it is a parent in me class, which means that we create the environment for the student, for the students, but the parents actually are the ones working with the little ones.
Speaker C:We're just to be there more as like for safety purposes.
Speaker C:So my job is to build obstacle courses and to pass these skills along to these students.
Speaker C:So I've got the, you know, if you, if you're picturing like American Ninja Warrior, we have like the ricochet mats that you jump from one to the other to the other.
Speaker C:There's like these walls that are about like waist high to an adult that you learn these different vaulting techniques to get over them.
Speaker C:We do have a warped wall, which is that thing that kind of looks like a ramp at a skate park that you run, run, run up.
Speaker C:We also have the ninja rig, which has a variety of different.
Speaker C:It kind of looks like the elimination chamber from wwe, but it's kind of got like all these different like climbing elements to it.
Speaker C:Like there's a rope net thing, there's these really tall monkey bars, like a whole bunch of different ways to like climb around on it.
Speaker C:And, and, and that's.
Speaker C:I also am the academy coach.
Speaker C:So I started doing the rec program, which is baby ninja, little ninja and youth ninja, which is just these different age groups.
Speaker C:It is predominantly boys who are students.
Speaker C:But do you do get some girls?
Speaker C:It's not like no girls allowed kind of thing.
Speaker C:You do get some girls in there as well.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:But I am the academy coach.
Speaker C:So the difference between the rec.
Speaker C:The rec program and the academy program is that in the rec program there's a very specific skill sheet that you teach.
Speaker C:It's one skill sheet where you learn things like forward roll, cartwheels, backward rolls, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:Really basic kicks, like roundhouse kick, hook kick, things like that.
Speaker C:In the academy there are five levels.
Speaker C:White, white, ninja, yellow, green, blue and purple.
Speaker C:As of this recording, we only have students as far as blue.
Speaker C:We don't have any purple ninjas yet.
Speaker C:And the bulk of our of our students are in Yellow Ninja right now.
Speaker C:And at each of those different levels you get a completely different set of skills that you learn.
Speaker C:At each one you also get.
Speaker C:It's a T shirt with a ninja mask on it that's kind of this cartoon looking ninja mask on it.
Speaker C:And at White Ninja, the mask is white.
Speaker C:You go to yellow, you Get a black T shirt with a yellow mask, so on and so forth.
Speaker C:Kind of like a.
Speaker C:A little bit like the martial arts with the belts or sashes.
Speaker C:But again, there's no combat element to.
Speaker C:You know, sometimes if you're floating around the stuff that I look at on Instagram, you see things like parkour, mma.
Speaker C:That's not what's going on here.
Speaker C:There's no like combat elements to this at all, but hit head on, head to head, combat elements to it.
Speaker C:But yeah, when it comes to like the terminology, you know, I've dropped some terms along the way, but all of these skills, especially the parkour ones, just have ridiculous names.
Speaker C:I can do a Kong, a double kong, a tsunami, a butterfly.
Speaker C:I can do.
Speaker C:Trying to think of it.
Speaker C:Twist, a Macaco.
Speaker C:I'm.
Speaker C:I almost have my Transformer.
Speaker C:And I wish, I wish I could say I could do an aerial.
Speaker C:If you're from the gymnastics world, you know what that one is?
Speaker C:But yeah, all of the most.
Speaker C:Some of those were kicks, some of those are ways to get yourself up over a.
Speaker C:An object.
Speaker C:Basically, if you've ever played Assassin's Creed and you're like, I want to do this, that is my job.
Speaker C:My job is to make little Assassin's Creed characters.
Speaker C:That is what I'm doing for a living, perfect.
Speaker C:You know, you ask the question, this is what the world needs.
Speaker C:And you ask the question of like, who, who should look for this?
Speaker C:You should look, you know, if, if this sounds interesting to you, like, who should do this kind of work?
Speaker C:Basically, if you have a background in martial arts or gymnastics or parkour, you can make it work.
Speaker C:So like, I have this martial arts background, but doing martial arts for over 20 years, so doing the kicks has been really easy for me.
Speaker C:They're starting to get tricky because it's like cheat 900 now, which are, again, none of these things are actually helpful in self defense, but they look really cool when you do them, which is a jump spinning kick, by the way.
Speaker C:I guess I'm purposely not explaining as much as possible just because it sounds cooler that way, but it's more fun as long as you have like a background in what.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:If you.
Speaker C:As long as you have a background in one of those three areas, you can kind of learn on the job with the rest of the skills.
Speaker C:So like, for me, with the martial art background, doing the kicks has been so easy.
Speaker C:I've been able to like introduce so much equipment that was commonplace in the martial art world.
Speaker C:But when you're working with people who have More of a gymnastics background.
Speaker C:It's like, okay, these are very basic kick pads that you need.
Speaker C:So that way these kids can safely learn how to do these kicks.
Speaker C:The parkour elements have also been pretty easy.
Speaker C:That's like the easiest thing for me to kind of like, pull learn.
Speaker C:Next is all of the, like, how to get over this object in a really cool way.
Speaker C:Like, that's.
Speaker C:That has been the next easiest part.
Speaker C:It's been the gymnastics stuff.
Speaker C:Especially, like, you know those bars, like, if you watch the Olympics, you have the uneven bars that you, like, swing from.
Speaker C:We do stuff with that.
Speaker C:And that has been.
Speaker C:My Polish dad bod has had a really hard time getting used to doing that stuff.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But yeah, like, if that is, you can just Google.
Speaker C:Google Ninja Zone.
Speaker C:It will come up and you can search on there, wherever you're located at, to see where your nearest gym is and see if they're hiring.
Speaker C:If any of this wackiness sounds at all like, I would totally want to go do this.
Speaker A:I think it all sounds wonderful.
Speaker A:Quick aside before, you know, pick.
Speaker A:Pick to PDAC up because we're.
Speaker A:We're behind, but it's fine.
Speaker A:Glitches.
Speaker A:I blame glitches.
Speaker A:The antigrav glitches and tj not related, probably.
Speaker A:But I'm also going to do what you did and not explain things.
Speaker A:When I was doing martial arts, there was like, we learned a tornado kick, which was like, I guess I will explain.
Speaker A:It was like a step.
Speaker A:And then after the step, you do a spin kick for some reason, a jumping spin kick.
Speaker A:And the reverse tornado kick was basically just the backwards part, but without the step.
Speaker A:So it's just a spin kick.
Speaker A:And like, for the life of me, I still think about this.
Speaker A:It bothers me as I'm like, not only is the reverse tornado easier, I mean, it's easier.
Speaker A:I think it looks cooler.
Speaker A:For some reason, we learned it at a more advanced level.
Speaker A:It's also way more practical.
Speaker A:And I'm like, why do we even learn the tornado?
Speaker A:I'm like, why?
Speaker A:Why the steps?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's the thing about the Tornado kick.
Speaker C:And a lot of these, like the Butterfly kick and the Tsunami Kick, again, they all look cool.
Speaker C:And to very simply explain it, they all involve some combination of turning, stepping, and jumping.
Speaker C:Like, there's all that.
Speaker C:It plays out in different ways each time.
Speaker C:But there is.
Speaker C:Yeah, there is a good point there of, like, why the Tornado kick is so ineffective in an actual fight.
Speaker C:Because you have to have that setup step, the Tsunami Kick, you actually start from, like, A neutral stance.
Speaker C:Just like, feet together, and then you step into it like you're walking into the kick.
Speaker C:And I'm like, this makes sense.
Speaker C:Let me just be as vulnerable as possible before I do this kick.
Speaker A:It's in case you're at an office meeting.
Speaker A:You're like, you know what?
Speaker A:I just want to kick that guy.
Speaker C:I'm gonna kick Rick because he's such a jerk.
Speaker C:A Kong.
Speaker C:I will explain some of the vaults.
Speaker C:A Kong?
Speaker C:Yeah, A Kong is you run up to, like, let's say you're at a park and there's a bench, and you're gonna launch yourself over it.
Speaker C:You jump, grab onto the top of the bench, and you pull yourself forward.
Speaker C:Your feet never touch that bench.
Speaker C:You don't put your feet down and then jump off it or anything like that.
Speaker C:A macaco is you're down, feet on the floor, one hand behind you, and you kind of jump and push yourself through your toes and throw your legs over the top of your head to land on your feet.
Speaker C:It's kind of like you're throwing yourself backwards.
Speaker A:This sounds super cool, but also impractical.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Again, like, what's funny is, like, a lot of the stuff that we teach, like, you know, as you advance more, you learn front flip, back flip, front handspring, back handspring, aerial.
Speaker C:Like, all of these stuff that, like, even if you don't know what some of these terms are, if you've ever watched the summer games and you've ever watched the women's, like, floor routine, especially in gymnastics, you've seen these skills.
Speaker C:But what's funny is, like, this is the stuff that people assume you learn in the martial arts because they've seen it in Power Rangers and other really cool, cheesy 80s flicks.
Speaker C:And it's like, no, all of this stuff is actually super impractical when it comes to self defense, but.
Speaker C:Or even, like, even, like in a sport, in a sport kind of environment, like, a lot of this stuff is super impractical.
Speaker C:It just looks cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I will say Power Rangers.
Speaker A:Power Rangers is probably one of my favorite historical documentaries.
Speaker A:Anyway, moving on so we can finish this up for the meat of these episodes.
Speaker A:You know, we want to talk.
Speaker A:We want to go through these 12 theological topics, and this is cheating because you go to seminary.
Speaker A:So, you know, all these, you know, stuff that's often debated by theologians, podcasters, pastors, etc.
Speaker A:We want to see how they impact people's everyday lives.
Speaker A:So we're going to run through these 12 topics that our Facebook group voted on, not including the sandwich question.
Speaker A:We already did that.
Speaker A:And just like a multiple choice.
Speaker A:I need you to let me know if you find it somewhat relevant.
Speaker A:Relevant.
Speaker A:Really relevant.
Speaker A:Or if you've never heard of it, but that there's no point in me saying that you know all of these.
Speaker A:I know you well enough to know you know all these, so just not relevant.
Speaker A:Somewhat relevant.
Speaker A:Really relevant.
Speaker A:I'm excited for this one.
Speaker A:It's gonna be fun because I.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't know what you're gonna say.
Speaker A:And it's fun because you have, like, a deep knowledge of all of these, what they are, but I don't know if that impacts your bias on whether or not you think they're relevant.
Speaker A:All right, Brandon.
Speaker A:Soteriology.
Speaker A:The nature of what it means to be saved.
Speaker C:Doesn't matter.
Speaker C:Irrelevant.
Speaker A:Free will versus predestination.
Speaker C:Irrelevant.
Speaker A:Atonement models.
Speaker C:Irrelevant.
Speaker A:It's all irrelevant.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Continuationism versus Satanism when it comes to the gift of the spirit.
Speaker C:Irrelevant.
Speaker A:Christology.
Speaker C:Irrelevant.
Speaker A:God's nature.
Speaker C:Irrelevant.
Speaker A:I'm really getting to be worried that they're all going to be irrelevant.
Speaker A:Social justice.
Speaker C:That one is relevant.
Speaker A:Hooray.
Speaker A:The doctrine of Mango Day might be.
Speaker C:Surprising pleasing to listeners.
Speaker C:Relevant.
Speaker A:The nature of scripture.
Speaker C:Irrelevant.
Speaker A:Ecclesiology and missiology.
Speaker A:What it means to be the church and how the church approaches outreach.
Speaker C:Irrelevant.
Speaker A:I know this has to be relevant.
Speaker A:Demonology and angelology.
Speaker C:I wish it was.
Speaker C:I wish it was.
Speaker C:I personally.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, that's irrelevant.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker C:Well, I was so excited to do this part.
Speaker C:I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker A:None of our faith is relevant.
Speaker A:Tell us why.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So here's the thing is, like, it was hard for me to do this part because as you oversold, as someone who is theologically trained and been been doing pastoral work for in Pulpa supply forms, like, it's weird to think, like, on paper.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Atonement models.
Speaker C:Atonement is a big deal.
Speaker C:Free will versus predestination.
Speaker C:Like, that's a big deal, right?
Speaker C:Like, it totally.
Speaker C:You know, all jokes aside about hot dogs and sandwiches and pop tarts and dumplings, like.
Speaker C:Like that is one of those ones that's like, so often theologically waxed.
Speaker C:And I personally love this study of demonology, but when it comes to, like, what I am doing, so much of this is completely irrelevant.
Speaker C:And I work at the ymca, the hub of muscular Christianity, moralism, and most of this is completely irrelevant.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I'm just part a little bit different.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:I was kind of surprised you said soteriology was irrelevant.
Speaker A:You know, the nature be saved because, you know, like, for a lot of us it's like salvation that like, defines everything about who I am.
Speaker A:All that.
Speaker A:Unpack that for me a little bit.
Speaker A:Why to you is soteriology not feel very relevant?
Speaker C:It's not part of the job.
Speaker C:I don't know how better to like, obviously when I am doing my job, I am there to.
Speaker C:I am there to represent Christ in my work, but that doesn't mean that I'm like sitting down to witness to the.
Speaker C:Okay, now we're going to go through the Romans road.
Speaker C:Like they are there to learn specific skills and to do specific things.
Speaker C:It's very much an environment where I am there to embody Christ by my actions and occasionally within my words as well.
Speaker C:Like when I'm trying to have.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:There are times when more serious conversations come up, but predominantly the things that really do matter in this environment, if we are going through this list of 12 things is social justice.
Speaker C:And like I said, based off of everything else, it might be kind of surprising.
Speaker C:But in a roundabout way, the like, reality of the Imago Day does play a factor as well, I would say.
Speaker C:But maybe I'm just being a bit of a jerk, but by and large a lot of these especially very like the, the cessation versus whatever the other word is.
Speaker C:I can't remember off the top of my head.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's not relevant.
Speaker C:I'm sorry if I'm sorry, person who thought that one was relevant.
Speaker C:It's not.
Speaker C:It really has nothing to do with my job.
Speaker C:Love ya.
Speaker C:Has nothing to do with what I'm doing.
Speaker C:Yeah, but social justice and I would.
Speaker C:I think there's an argument also for the Imago Day being a factor in my work.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's funny because I probably am one of the ones that would argue cessationism and continuationism is super relevant, partially probably because I want it to be, but it's fine.
Speaker A:And also, you know, it depends on how you define gifts of spirit, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a whole, whole long thing.
Speaker C:Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker A:One of the things that's interesting, I would say by far the two that get picked the most is like the most relevant throughout this whole series has been social justice and imago dei.
Speaker A:And I think in progressive churches you do hear a lot of social justice.
Speaker A:In conservative churches you hear why you don't need the social justice gospel a lot.
Speaker A:For some reason, I don't really hear a lot of people talking about Imago Day.
Speaker A:Like, they might bring it up.
Speaker A:If you ask somebody, like, what's an important thing, they might say Imago Day, like your pastors and stuff.
Speaker A:I don't hear it preached about very often.
Speaker A:Why.
Speaker A:Why don't we preach about Imago Day more when, like, clearly that's what people want to hear more about.
Speaker C:Well, when it.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker C:The time to.
Speaker C:When I hear Imago Day comes from the pro life or abolitionist camps, talking about why we should preserve the life of those in the womb.
Speaker C:The reason why I choose Imago Day and social justice.
Speaker C:To me, these two are actually going hand in hand, because especially in the environment I'm working in with the ymca, you cannot call the YMCA woke because one, that's not a bad thing, and two, you can't call them woke because the YMCA has for decades been working to be an inclusive place, to be a place for families and to be a safe space for people of all religious backgrounds, of all different walks of life, of all different shapes and sizes and gender identity.
Speaker C:I worked with a trans person at the ymca.
Speaker C:There you go.
Speaker C:So to me, maybe not so much like Ninja Zone itself, but the environment in which I am teaching it definitely values being inclusive, making a safe space for children and families.
Speaker C:And to me, when we are talking about social justice this way, which is a very low entry point, admittedly, when.
Speaker C:When it comes to social justice, this reaffirms Imago Day.
Speaker C:This reaffirms.
Speaker C:Even if that, I mean, by no means is.
Speaker C:Has anyone ever thrown that term around while I've been at work.
Speaker C:But this reaffirms that human beings worth.
Speaker C:Yeah, human beings have worth because they are made in the image of God.
Speaker C:And yeah, we value that by creating a safe space for all people.
Speaker C:So that's why to me, of all of these, those are the two most relevant ones.
Speaker C:Maybe if I sat down, really worked it out, I could figure out a way to make more of these work.
Speaker C:I'm sorry, I still can't figure out how to make demonology fit in there.
Speaker C:But I.
Speaker C:I am confident that social justice and the imago dei, one, they go together, and two, they are very present in my work.
Speaker A:Yeah, of course it's easy for me to make angelology and demonology work.
Speaker A:So much of our current angelology, gemonology relies on studies by Thomas Aquinas.
Speaker A:And you do know, if you follow his work, that pretty much everything he says relies on logical fallacies.
Speaker A:And knowing logical fallacies will help you from making stupid mistakes at Work.
Speaker A:So there you go.
Speaker A:Don't be like.
Speaker C:He was a big.
Speaker C:He did love his Greek philosophy, that is for sure.
Speaker C:I will give you that.
Speaker C:He did love his Greek philosophy.
Speaker A:All right, so you picked a couple you focused in on.
Speaker A:You focused in on imago dei, social justice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:A lot of the other ones you said were irrelevant.
Speaker A:What would you rather the church and our pastors, theologians be focusing on than some of these topics that we tend to hear them focus on?
Speaker C:What would I rather.
Speaker C:The church?
Speaker C:The church or seminaries?
Speaker C:Which one do you want me to answer?
Speaker C:Or, like, both?
Speaker A:Yeah, both.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, both.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:How do I put this, y'all?
Speaker C:We need more ethic examinations.
Speaker C:Okay?
Speaker C:That's my thing.
Speaker C:That's what seminary needs.
Speaker C:You like, look, I'm the.
Speaker C:My seminary life guy, and I constantly.
Speaker C:I shouldn't say constantly.
Speaker C:I have gotten my fair share of people from the outside saying, this is what's wrong with seminary.
Speaker C:And I go, bro, you don't even work here.
Speaker C:You don't even go here.
Speaker C:But one thing that's never brought up and I think is here's the scenario I want to present to you.
Speaker C:Pastors have to take an ethics examination.
Speaker C:They have to be required to take.
Speaker C:This is not happening.
Speaker C:This is what I want to happen.
Speaker C:Okay?
Speaker C:Those getting specifically masters of Divinity and pastoral studies.
Speaker C:If you're in some form of pastoral studies, you should be required to take an ethics examination.
Speaker C:In order to take an ethics examination, you then have to take ethics.
Speaker C:You have to study ethics.
Speaker C:And I'm not talking about the ethics class I took in college, which was basically waxing philosophically over if a hot dog was a sandwich.
Speaker C:I mean, that's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:That kind of stuff, you know, and those kind of classes.
Speaker C:It's a lot of the.
Speaker C:What's that ridiculous one of, like, you're in a runaway trolley car and it's either crash the trolley or run someone over.
Speaker C:It's like, yeah, like these things that don't.
Speaker A:If you don't pull the lever, four people get murdered.
Speaker A:But if you pull the lever, only one person gets murdered.
Speaker A:Do you do the action killing the one person, or you just let four people die?
Speaker C:And if that one person answer I heard was from a Franciscan monk, I think the best answer I heard was from a Franciscan monk who said, yeah, that's not how life works.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:That's not how that works.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:They need to not just wax philosophically about ethical situations and viewpoints that are irrelevant.
Speaker C:They need to understand that bad things have consequences.
Speaker C:Lawyers have to take ethics examinations.
Speaker C:Counselors, depending on the state you live in, have to take board certified ethics examinations.
Speaker C:Doctors have to take the Hippocratic oath.
Speaker C:Like there is this check and balance of you understand that you are here to do good, and if you do bad, you're gonna have consequences.
Speaker C:And for that, I would say pastors have to study ethics.
Speaker C:They have to take an ethics examination.
Speaker C:And if there is a stealing money from the church or doing things that you should not be doing to minors or having even possibly to the extent of having an affair, you should lose your.
Speaker C:Lose your ethics card and you cannot pastor until you go through the process again.
Speaker C:That is.
Speaker C:And I know I should have a better thing than ethics card.
Speaker C:You lose your ethics certification.
Speaker C:No, you have to take an ethics course.
Speaker C:Take the, take the board certification again, and then you can reenter ministry.
Speaker C:But Brandon, what about grace?
Speaker C:What about forgiveness and mercy?
Speaker C:You're the one cheapening grace by protecting predators.
Speaker C:I'm working at the stupid ymca.
Speaker C:I shouldn't say stupid.
Speaker C:I love my job.
Speaker C:I'm working at the YMCA teaching kids how to look cool doing kicks.
Speaker C:And I am a mandatory reporter.
Speaker C:I have, I have had to take all these courses and certifications that were not part of my seminary training.
Speaker C:That taught me, hey, if you do bad things to children, there's consequences for that.
Speaker C:If you are aware of someone doing bad things to children, you have to do something about that.
Speaker C:Pastors should be held to the same standards.
Speaker C:Seminaries should have to prepare pastors for that.
Speaker C:And I'm sorry, churches, I'm sorry to the person who just wants to throw grace and mercy around because you care more about your pastor than you do victims.
Speaker C:But there's.
Speaker C:There's got to be something.
Speaker C:You know, I don't know if this would fix everything.
Speaker C:Obviously, people are always going to get through the cracks.
Speaker C:There's always doctors and lawyers and counselors who do bad things.
Speaker C:But hey, throwing a bar in the way that actually could make sense versus you need to be 30 years old, married, with a kid, throwing the bar out there of, hey, you have to take an ethics examination and if you fail, you can't enter ministry.
Speaker C:And if you steal money from the church, you lose your certification and you can't minister anymore.
Speaker C:To me, that seems like maybe that might help a little bit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's crazy how in normal workplaces, it's a lot easier to contact your hr, report concerns about your boss than it is the church in general.
Speaker A:The church has terrible business policies just when it comes to hiring, firing, pays Vacation, Covid, even.
Speaker A:Everybody, if you work for like, Covid was handled terribly.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, everybody should go check out.
Speaker C:If you work for a nonprofit, go see what their rating is on Charity Navigator.
Speaker C:It's this organization, it's a third party that reviews websites.
Speaker C:It's not like Yelp or Rotten Tomatoes where anyone can write a review of the organization.
Speaker C:It's a third party that rates nonprofits and 501c3 based off of the transparency they have on the Internet, on their website, on their social media, and who knows, you might find out that you're really great.
Speaker C:501 C3 actually has a terrible rating because they're not as transparent as they should be.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:No, it's heavy.
Speaker A:I also wish pastors had to take two logic exams.
Speaker A:One that's actually teaching logic and the other one is to see how much they agree with Thomas Aquinas.
Speaker A:I think that should affect whether or not you can do ministry anyway.
Speaker A:So everyone sees the world through different eyes.
Speaker A:Brandon.
Speaker C:My seminary life is going to do.
Speaker C:No, no, no, hold on.
Speaker C:My seminary life is going to do a whole series now just devoted to St.
Speaker C:Thomas Aquinas.
Speaker C:And it's going to be finally, I've wanted to do this for a while where I just bring somebody on as like a.
Speaker C:In a like part time guest host role and we do a whole series together and I just have to do this now.
Speaker A:It's got to be like a good cop, bad cop where you say some nice things and then I just, I'm.
Speaker C:Not even like, I'm not even like, I would be a bad good cop because I don't even like, I have no strong feelings towards St.
Speaker C:Thomas Aquinas.
Speaker C:Like, when you get into the apologetics world, the guy is everywhere.
Speaker C:But then you can also completely tear down how we do apologetics.
Speaker C:So that doesn't even help.
Speaker A:Before I started this podcast, the whole church podcast, I had no feelings about Thomas Aquinas.
Speaker A:Tej just mentioned it a few times.
Speaker A:And then one day I started looking up, like, why is he not like Thomas Aquinas?
Speaker A:And then I started like reading what this guy wrote and I'm like, this guy is stupid.
Speaker A:And now I'm just became really passionate about it for some reason.
Speaker A:Anyway, so each of us see the world through different eyes.
Speaker A:As a coach, sensei, is there anything that you think you see that our pastors, church leaders, theologians would benefit for seeing for themselves or learning more about from people like you?
Speaker A:You?
Speaker C:Yeah, I think, you know, you know, you read these studies or these Books about, like, oh, the young.
Speaker C:The youngins, they're so anxious and so insecure and have all these kind of, like, mental illness things.
Speaker C:And you know what?
Speaker C:Come work with me sometime.
Speaker C:And you do see it, like, you know, you have these kids who.
Speaker C:It's more than just having a fear of heights because we do climb up, climb up, really tall stuff and then jump down.
Speaker C:Like, that is a part of the job.
Speaker C:Job.
Speaker C:But the.
Speaker C:It is more than just like, a fear of heights.
Speaker C:Like, there you do see, like, kids who are truly, like, struggling with anxiety, struggling with all these different, like, mental health things.
Speaker C:And also, like, a lot of special need kids as well.
Speaker C:Like, definitely something I was not prepared for of working with children on the spectrum.
Speaker C:So I would say, like, if you.
Speaker C:I would say that is like a big benefit that I think pastors and theologians could.
Speaker C:Could potentially benefit from is actually like, being on the ground and working with children rather than just reading about these things in a book and then saying, oh, yeah, we should do something about that.
Speaker C:Like, it's different when you can actually, like, put a name and a face together of like, wow, you have so much anger and anxiety and you're seven.
Speaker C:Like, you really shouldn't.
Speaker A:Yeah, man.
Speaker A:Man, it's been a lot, Brandon.
Speaker A:You know, usually at the end of our shows, we ask about practical actions kind of stuff.
Speaker A:For this series, we've been asking everybody, yeah, what can the church do to better help people in your job?
Speaker A:So, like, if someone's in the church or just like a local church was like, hey, we want to do more for our local coaches and senseis, like Brandon Knight.
Speaker A:What could we do to better help our coaches and senseis?
Speaker C:Yeah, you know, it's an interesting question.
Speaker C:Obviously, we'll just throw the easy, you know, pray for us, because we're working with kids who are coming off of their ADHD medicine, and we are not per.
Speaker C:Necessarily trained to do that or to, again, work with kids on the spectrum.
Speaker C:But, you know, I think.
Speaker C:I think a big thing is.
Speaker C:And I've really appreciated how you all have been handling this series of.
Speaker C:I would really like to see the church maybe step away from the whole marketplace.
Speaker C:How we talk about, like, you go into ministry or there's the marketplace, and it's kind of.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's not.
Speaker C:It's not the number two, but it's.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:Right, like, when we.
Speaker C:When we frame it that way, like, it's the number two option.
Speaker C:Be in ministry or, you know, you can work in the marketplace.
Speaker C:Plus, I just hate the word marketplace, it's just kind of a gross word.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I would say just kind of, like, how about we just see all of life as ministry?
Speaker C:Like, it looks like very different ways, from serving people quality meals to teaching children to helping children learn that they can do amazing skills, amazing tricks with their body.
Speaker C:Like, and it's because God has gifted us with, like, this weird meat bag covered in skin that we can do these ridiculous tricks.
Speaker C:Like, it's so cool.
Speaker C:Let's not treat other jobs as, like, secondary things.
Speaker C:Like, it is all ministry, and it's all cool and it's all wonderful.
Speaker A:Man, that was just.
Speaker A:That was beautiful.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What happens, Brandon, if we do that?
Speaker A:Like, if everybody does stop treating, you know, other jobs is, like, the marketplace, like, not ministry.
Speaker A:And we do.
Speaker A:Like, we truly.
Speaker A:The church actually just treats everything like it's ministry.
Speaker A:What changes?
Speaker C:You know, I think if we did that, you know, there may be more unity.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's almost like this is the season, the series finale, and I feel pressured to, like, yeah, tie this in a bow for everybody.
Speaker C:But, like, you know, it is kind of like a.
Speaker C:It is a way to, like, bring unity of, like, oh, there's not the ministry people, the pastors, the theologians, and then all you marketplace people.
Speaker C:But, like, we're all just working together to the glory of God and our jobs.
Speaker C:Some of us preach, some of us teach, some of us are ninja coaches, and we're all just serving God in our very specific ways.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Although some of us may be cooler than others.
Speaker A:Come on, Ninja.
Speaker C:Anyway, I do have the cooler job title.
Speaker A:Always good to have you, man, but thanks.
Speaker A:You know, we like with the God moment section.
Speaker A:TJ always makes me go first, so I'll go first.
Speaker A:Give you time to think about your God moment.
Speaker A:Six years ago today, I got engaged.
Speaker A:So sometimes I just.
Speaker C:Oh, nice.
Speaker A:I like being married and just reflected on life, and I'm like, I like life right now.
Speaker A:I like being married and having dogs and cats and living in a nice little neighborhood.
Speaker A:I just feel blessed today.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just feeling blessed.
Speaker A:That's my moment.
Speaker A:It's lame, but, hey, it's a series finale.
Speaker A:What do you expect other than a letdown or a hang?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:I was about to call it a hangover.
Speaker A:What's it actually called?
Speaker A:Like, the cliffhanger.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker A:Cliffhanger.
Speaker A:Cliffhanger.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker A:Now I'm trying to figure out how to do a cliffhanger.
Speaker A:Also, Brandon works a second job as a pterodactyl assassin.
Speaker A:Find out next time.
Speaker C:Thank you for saying pterodactyl.
Speaker C:You paused a little too long on Terra.
Speaker C:I was like, he's not going to say terrorist, is he?
Speaker A:Like the ultimate cliffhanger.
Speaker A:Brand is also the dangerous.
Speaker A:Okay, what is your God moment or assassination mission?
Speaker C:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker C:My God moment would be that we are recording this just two days.
Speaker C:Two days from my son Cooper's third birthday.
Speaker C:So all this week is getting things ready for his party here at the end of the week, which is Curious George themed.
Speaker C:We're doing Curious George this year, so this has been a fun time of getting things ready.
Speaker A:I just want Curious George Goes to Wonderland.
Speaker A:And the title of the movie is just Curious George Curiouser and curiouser.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's what I want.
Speaker C:Love that.
Speaker A:That's my new God.
Speaker C:Clever.
Speaker A:My new what if Curious George Wonderland.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Finishing up TJ's stuff and reading this outline.
Speaker A:Please share it with a friend, enemy, or a cousin if you enjoyed the episode or if you didn't enjoy the episode.
Speaker A:I really don't care if you enjoyed it or not.
Speaker A:Just share it with somebody now.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Also, you better liked it.
Speaker C:You talked to a ninja coach.
Speaker C:Dang it.
Speaker C:Like, you better have liked this.
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker A:How often do we get ninjas on the show?
Speaker A:If you want cool merch, like what I'm wearing, If you're on YouTube, it's soft, it's comfy.
Speaker A:You can go to our store.
Speaker A:There's a link down below in the show notes, description, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker A:Check out all the shows of Loves all podcast network.
Speaker A:Brandon does Kung Fu Pizza Party, as well as my seminary life, both on the network.
Speaker A:I do dummy for theology.
Speaker A:It's fun.
Speaker A:If you want to hear more about logic, theology, why I don't like Thomas Aquinas, head over there.
Speaker A:I also might be renaming it soon, so we'll see.
Speaker A:Hope you enjoyed the show reading.
Speaker A:Next week we're going to do an encore, an encore to the series.
Speaker A:The encore episode, of course, is going to be with Andy Walsh.
Speaker A:We're going to be talking about faith in science and how his faith impacts his work as a scientist.
Speaker A:Then we'll take a week off and we're actually going to have a round table of pastors and professors who are going to help us reflect on this series.
Speaker A:We're going to talk about, like, what people said was and wasn't relevant.
Speaker A:That's happening in seminaries and churches.
Speaker A:And then we're going to talk to the leaders of these seminaries and churches be like, hey, people said what you're talking about is not relevant.
Speaker A:What are we doing?
Speaker A:And see what they say.
Speaker A:What are we doing after that?
Speaker A:We're gonna have some episodes with Theology Beer Camp.
Speaker A:We got a.
Speaker A:We got Brandon Sanderson's coming on about talking about being queer and Christian.
Speaker A:Josh Patterson and Aaron, the leader of the Christian podcasters group on Facebook.
Speaker A:Or talk about some contrary of post he did where a lot of people got in the comments and attacked him.
Speaker A:And we're like, well, is this really what Christian podcast podcasters do?
Speaker A:Attack people?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:Anyway, we got a lot of fun stuff.
Speaker A:You guys can make it to at least some of those.
Speaker A:We're excited to see where the show goes next.
Speaker A:Of course, at the end season one, we know what's gonna happen.
Speaker A:Francis Chan is going to be on this show probably if you guys.
Speaker A:And he agrees.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Lord, be close to us Lord, have mercy on us Lord, please put, put your hand on us day by day.
Speaker C:Lord.
Speaker B:Have mercy on us Lord, please put your hand on us day by day.
